Where do we go from here?

To me, this feels like the worst time we have been through in years. After the cup win I (perhaps foolishly) thought it might be the dawn of a new era. I guess it is a new era, just not the sort I hoped for.

I think the Conference League win (brilliant as it was) papered over some cracks. We have perhaps been on a downward trajectory since selling Eze, heightened by losing Guehi and Lacroix going pushed us over a tipping point. Even if these departures were unavoidable, it seems we have not planned for them and largely responded poorly.

I am unsure about how much Sage is to blame for our current plight. We don't know if he knew Lacroix would be going. Maybe he ok'd it but didn't get the replacement he hoped for. Unlike his predecessor, no-one can accuse him of blaming or badmouthing the club or its ownership. We are only 8 games into the league season with a whopping 30 games still to play. Maybe Sage ball will come good if he is given more time.

My gut feeling is that, with the current squad, he will not be able to turn it round. He is not in the FDB category but I think that, even after a short reign, it might be best for all (him included) if we part ways. Vincent Kompany ultimately failed at Burnley but has come good at Bayern. I can imagine Sage being more successful in the continental leagues than in the prem.

I believe it is essential to avoid relegation this year - new stand to be built, continue growing as a club etc. With that in mind, I would put Dyche ahead of Howe (he would not come to us), Frank, Perreira, Keane, Edwards and McKenna. Not an inspiring choice I accept but perhaps the one most likely to keep us in the prem.
 
mtp1958 said:
I get goals win games but we are looking for consistency. Which for me was better over the last 2 matchs . We have been scoring but yesterday , we gifted them there 2nd and we had no real threat after Mateta went off .
Still created but no end result . We have been complaining about our defence which was just . but they played as a better unit . but midfield wasn't tracking back fast enough to help . So has we sort one thing and another issue arises . Yesterday Sage saw nothing in the first half that threated us . So pushed up like most managers do looking for the early goal . McNeil put a great cross ball in and nobody gambled , they put a better one in and gambled . You cant teach how to deal with that . So overall result was crap but a better performance. . Wharton has lost form needs dropping he caused the 2nd goal . I try to look at the overall performance rather than 10 to 15 minutes , and I watch defence like
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I’m with you. Consistency has been our problem so far, both game to game and within games. To an extent that comes from playing 20 year olds although it’s been true of more experienced players like Wharton and even the reliable Mitchell. Yesterday we looked the better side for the first half but in the first fifteen minutes of the second half we were all over the place. Our midfield stopped tracking back, our back three lost their discipline, not helped by Mitchell and Khalaili playing too far forward, and our keeper might as well have stayed in the dressing room.
Obviously were missing experience at the back but also a goal threat up front. Without Sarr we’re relying on Mateta who scores one in five and invariably misses the tap ins.
It’s taking longer than I’d like for Sage to find his best eleven but I wouldn’t blame him entirely for our current problems. On the plus side McNeil put in a decent shift and Osorio looked promising. I hope he gives some of the peripheral players a game midweek in a game that counts for little in our season.
Anyway it’s too early to ditch Sage and I’m not convinced any of the candidates being touted currently would do any better.
 
MrRobbo said:
This is my issue. I completely understand the argument for sacking, and that goals conceded rate is alarming.

BUT, apart from 10 mins yesterday we were the better team. And in the first half shifted the balance to keep things tight (which blunted us a little going forward).

So what happened in those first 10 mins of the 2nd half. Did Sage tell the team at HT to open up a little more? Or was it the players just coming out of the blocks slowly?
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What happened was after an even low tempo first half Newcastle came out determined to win the game. They completely dominated us Physically, and mentally for twenty minutes, we simply just did not want it as much as them, and that in its self is a massive worry our body language said it all. After the two goals it was job done and the game returned to what it had been in the first half.
 
Willo said:
Osorio is basically a winger but we don't play with wingers.
I am informed that his strengths lie in his long-range shooting and his crossing with his precise left-foot. Furthermore he can advance left or right when faced with a direct opponent.
I believe we have an option to buy for £24 Mill.
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I think we did see flashes of what he can do yesterday, nice to see someone have a poke from distance and actually test the keeper
 
Putitout said:
What happened was after an even low tempo first half Newcastle came out determined to win the game. They completely dominated us Physically, and mentally for twenty minutes, we simply just did not want it as much as them, and that in its self is a massive worry our body language said it all. After the two goals it was job done and the game returned to what it had been in the first half.
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My concern has been that we lacked depth to start the year and that playing two matches a week was going to be exhausting even before the injuries came up.

Then add on top a new manager's system everyone is still learning that requires drastically more movement then the previous manager which further adds to the exhaustion and we are stuck at a point in which we have tired players who are frustrated and that is coming through to the fans as apathy.
 
BromleyMonkey said:
I know where we could go from here, it won’t help the defending, but Osorio was a positive yesterday when he came on and deserves a start.
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Osorio impressed those 20 minutes or so he was playing. Big upgrade from Nketiah and JSL. Play him with Mateta and stick 4 players in defence and likewise in the middle of the park. Play second strings against Fulham as well....
 
Willo said:
I was being specific about our defending for the opening goal yesterday. The fact that Osula was allowed so much space between our defenders was diabolical.
I am not advocating then every goal scored from a cross is a result of abject defending.
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Every goal from a cross out wide is from abject defending, either from not stopping the cross or dealing with it, if crossed. Unless you can explain otherwise, it seems a pretty obvious.
 
I'm thinking that the most likely direction will start with the sacking of Sage and the appointing of a new manager. A number of people have raised the name Dyche. Interestingly, the Beeb have just screened a 15 minute interview with him, available on Iplayer. Worth a look IMO. I'm not sure he'd be my first choice but I wouldn't be upset if Parish brought him in to sort out the mess.
 
Plumpton eagle said:
To me, this feels like the worst time we have been through in years. After the cup win I (perhaps foolishly) thought it might be the dawn of a new era. I guess it is a new era, just not the sort I hoped for.

I think the Conference League win (brilliant as it was) papered over some cracks. We have perhaps been on a downward trajectory since selling Eze, heightened by losing Guehi and Lacroix going pushed us over a tipping point. Even if these departures were unavoidable, it seems we have not planned for them and largely responded poorly.

I am unsure about how much Sage is to blame for our current plight. We don't know if he knew Lacroix would be going. Maybe he ok'd it but didn't get the replacement he hoped for. Unlike his predecessor, no-one can accuse him of blaming or badmouthing the club or its ownership. We are only 8 games into the league season with a whopping 30 games still to play. Maybe Sage ball will come good if he is given more time.

My gut feeling is that, with the current squad, he will not be able to turn it round. He is not in the FDB category but I think that, even after a short reign, it might be best for all (him included) if we part ways. Vincent Kompany ultimately failed at Burnley but has come good at Bayern. I can imagine Sage being more successful in the continental leagues than in the prem.

I believe it is essential to avoid relegation this year - new stand to be built, continue growing as a club etc. With that in mind, I would put Dyche ahead of Howe (he would not come to us), Frank, Perreira, Keane, Edwards and McKenna. Not an inspiring choice I accept but perhaps the one most likely to keep us in the prem.
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I think a lot of people think/thought that. You hear a lot of people wondering why we haven't kicked on.

Personally I never thought we would. How could we? One cup doesn't bring us in hundreds of millions, or build us an 50k stadium. What it did is give us an extraordinary period where we then won a 2nd cup, had a season in Europe and won that too! Now we are playing big European teams in another European cup.

Football is a zero-sum game. Everyone is trying to kick on. Its not something thats easy to do, or you can just decide one moment to do. We dont suddenly win the FA cup and go out and spend 200m.

As painful as it is to admit, Brighton are the best example of a team breaking through the glass ceiling. But its taken them a decade of very very smart transfers and lots of big sales. They have sold every player thats developed into a world class one (i suspect much to to the frustration of fans), but are now doing very well in the league and I wouldnt bet against them winning the conference league.

We are broadly on the same trajectory, all being our transfers aren't as smart, and we've had the silverware success already.
 
MrRobbo said:
I think a lot of people think/thought that. You hear a lot of people wondering why we haven't kicked on.

Personally I never thought we would. How could we? One cup doesn't bring us in hundreds of millions, or build us an 50k stadium. What it did is give us an extraordinary period where we then won a 2nd cup, had a season in Europe and won that too! Now we are playing big European teams in another European cup.

Football is a zero-sum game. Everyone is trying to kick on. Its not something thats easy to do, or you can just decide one moment to do. We dont suddenly win the FA cup and go out and spend 200m.

As painful as it is to admit, Brighton are the best example of a team breaking through the glass ceiling. But its taken them a decade of very very smart transfers and lots of big sales. They have sold every player thats developed into a world class one (i suspect much to to the frustration of fans), but are now doing very well in the league and I wouldnt bet against them winning the conference league.

We are broadly on the same trajectory, all being our transfers aren't as smart, and we've had the silverware success already.
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I beg to differ with you about us being broadly on the same trajectory as Brighton; in just their transfer dealings alone, they are, and it pains me to say it, head and shoulders above Palace.
 
MrRobbo said:
I think a lot of people think/thought that. You hear a lot of people wondering why we haven't kicked on.

Personally I never thought we would. How could we? One cup doesn't bring us in hundreds of millions, or build us an 50k stadium. What it did is give us an extraordinary period where we then won a 2nd cup, had a season in Europe and won that too! Now we are playing big European teams in another European cup.

Football is a zero-sum game. Everyone is trying to kick on. Its not something thats easy to do, or you can just decide one moment to do. We dont suddenly win the FA cup and go out and spend 200m.

As painful as it is to admit, Brighton are the best example of a team breaking through the glass ceiling. But its taken them a decade of very very smart transfers and lots of big sales. They have sold every player thats developed into a world class one (i suspect much to to the frustration of fans), but are now doing very well in the league and I wouldnt bet against them winning the conference league.

We are broadly on the same trajectory, all being our transfers aren't as smart, and we've had the silverware success already.
Click to expand...
Yes, Brighton relied on Tony Bloom's arcane statistical modelling, uncovered overlooked players, developed them over several seasons and then sold them on at a remarkable profit. The envy of many in the PL, including us trying to beat them at that very data-driven game.

BUT, if you look closely at the Brighton model they actually seeded the squad with very experienced, canny and proven Prem troopers like Milner, Lallana and Wellbeck who was so well deployed that he has gone on to Chelsea at 35. I think we are missing a trick. We had a problem a few seasons back with an ageing squad and now we seem to have gone the other way, losing a lot of experience in looking for young blood to develop and then flog. I don't think I'm going all Alan Hansen when I worry about lack of Premiership experience in the team now.

Let's not forget, Milner was 40 when he retired this summer. It gets overlooked how Brighton structure and balance the team.
 
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The words are coming out all weird where are you now, when I need you?

This is definitely giving me the bends.
 
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