Sage in or out

[ASCPFC]

Really, really would like us to go 4-2-3-1. Pretty obvious with our players. We can have the 6 behind the ball, rather than the five (which are never even behind the ball), solidfying our defence and have 4 attacking - which would also be more than we usually manage. We're in between every position at present - this gives us strength, and a spine. I have my ideas about who I'd pick but consider that - there are more options here than always having to pick three centre backs. All those wingers and tens we have could actually prove useful. Instead of pointless.

 

[PatrickA]

All of this does make me wonder what went on in the summer, much like I wondered what went on before FDB was appointed. We never really know what goes on in these manager-hunts and interviews, I suppose. If we knew then it would put such a different light on things.

Some have said that Sage was appointed as his Lens team was playing a 343 system, allowing us some continuity. Others that he was picked as his teams played attacking football. There is, of course, the small matter that he got Lens to 2nd in the league, however he was doing it.

Personally, I think the idea that Palace should search high and low for a manger who plays a certain system or style is dubious, as it narrows the options when they aren't very wide ranging to begin with.

How many managers are there who are good enough to do well in the premier league and who are happy to come to Palace? It's much the same as with players, I imagine, in that we end up scrapping for the best of the rest once the big clubs have had first go. To then limit ourselves to a coach who likes a certain system, or who plays a certain type of football, strikes me as a step too far. We should just get the best guy we can, regardless of his characteristics.

That said, there has to be a connection between the way the manager tends to coach, the players we are likely to have, any financial requirement to develop and sell younger players, and what we know to work for us and clubs our size in the league, surely?

Old-school managers used to take a mixed short, medium, and long term view of things, and were chiefly responsible for signings and sales, including staying within budget. As such, they could tweak and mould as they went along with todays game, this season, and who we might buy and sell in summer all in their minds at once.

That's what is most striking at the moment. There just seems so little relationship between those factors. Now never seemed the right time to be bold tactically, when we have had (or have chosen, who knows?) to sell so many senior, leading players.

Not that we know the club wanted to play good football above and beyond anything else. Perhaps they just appointed Sage because he had done well, and left it to him to adjust his tactics as appropriate? That seems reasonable.

We also have no idea what personnel Sage said he needed to play 'his way', if indeed he asked for anything specific. Perhaps he just said 'Get the best players you can within the budget, and I'll figure it out'. We just don't know.

With regard to the final paragraph there have been reports as to who Sage wanted.
These included the mobile centre back from Lens (too expensive) , Sangare (went to Brentford), Fofana (went to Sunderland).
Unlike Glasner, who got Lacroix and Kamada, Sage doesn't appear to have had his shopping wish list fulfilled.
He appears to be content with Timber, but doesn't seem overly keen on most of the other signings.
If another manager joins now, no doubt he will also have his requirements too for January.

As the proverb goes 'may you live in interesting times,' as that is one way of describing what the next few months may bring.

 

[NEILLO]

Sage wanted timber and he got timber!!

If he wants to employ tactics that have timber running around like a headless chicken and doing 360 spins every time he gets the ball then that's on him!!

What’s that got to do with the central defender issue I mentioned ?

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Really, really would like us to go 4-2-3-1. Pretty obvious with our players. We can have the 6 behind the ball, rather than the five (which are never even behind the ball), solidfying our defence and have 4 attacking - which would also be more than we usually manage. We're in between every position at present - this gives us strength, and a spine. I have my ideas about who I'd pick but consider that - there are more options here than always having to pick three centre backs. All those wingers and tens we have could actually prove useful. Instead of pointless.

I doubt you are on your own in this view. Far from it.

I have said on another thread that there is no such thing as a bad formation, just poor coaching of that formation and/or the wrong formation for your players.

At the moment Palace feels a bit like when Amorim was at Man Utd. His team were so poor with the 343 formation, all it took was someone to come along and not play that system, and instead just do much as you have said - get the basics in place, and they started flying up the table.

 

[mtp1958]

Doesn’t suit his agenda !

Don't care what gender he his 🤣 it was there on the Internet to read , was just pointing out he can change

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Have a read

That's good i look forward to see that tomorrow and Sunday.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Doesn’t suit his agenda !

My agenda is not to play like a bag of S***e

 

[est1905]

Sage is in 'Mute' mode when the game is in process. Just stands in the technical area motionless, not providing any direction or encouragement at all, he could be mistaken for a statue.

Very often Arsene Wenger was the same.

 

[est1905]

Poor Sage, it must be a shock to him to see the tactical plan that served him so well in France fail so miserably in the Premiership. Back to the drawing board!

I think he realises you cant just pick up the same system with different players. Many of whom are not up to the job.

 

[est1905]

Parish and Co hired Sage because they wanted attacking football using a version of Glasners tactics.

Sage had a requirement for at least one mobile central defender with pace.

Parish got what he wanted , Sage didn’t .

It’s all very well saying he should make the best out of what he’s got to work with. But if , as I think he does, trust in his methods - the methods that got him hired in the first place - then he must be questioning why he was given the job in the first place.

I back him now as I backed Glasner 2 years ago. But I don’t think it’s going to work out.

I tend to agree. I want him to succeed but I have doubts.
One thing I will say though. So many on here calling for a change of formation, different tactics, etc. That wont work because thats not what got him here and its not what he knows and its not what he has proved good at.
As Glasner said in the past when talking about his favoured formation (when its not working well) If you believe in what you are doing and its not going well you dont change it. You work harder. This is what our players need to be doing.
I'd definitely go with the more experienced Lerma at the back with Richards and Canvot needs to just knuckle down and concentrate better. Mitchell and Kalaili need to be reminded that wide defence is their job, not Timber's and we need to get back to moving the ball quickly again.

 

[ASCPFC]

I tend to agree. I want him to succeed but I have doubts.
One thing I will say though. So many on here calling for a change of formation, different tactics, etc. That wont work because thats not what got him here and its not what he knows and its not what he has proved good at.
As Glasner said in the past when talking about his favoured formation (when its not working well) If you believe in what you are doing and its not going well you dont change it. You work harder. This is what our players need to be doing.
I'd definitely go with the more experienced Lerma at the back with Richards and Canvot needs to just knuckle down and concentrate better. Mitchell and Kalaili need to be reminded that wide defence is their job, not Timber's and we need to get back to moving the ball quickly again.

It's becoming ludicrous for us to play with the three at the back. We don't have three good centre backs to start with. I agree that Lerma is the better option. He's not a centre back, that should tell us something.
We weren't any good with the back three under Glasner for months either. We don't have the players. We're at the stage where everybody can see it which clearly includes our opponents.

 

[JHB]

I tend to agree. I want him to succeed but I have doubts.
One thing I will say though. So many on here calling for a change of formation, different tactics, etc. That wont work because thats not what got him here and its not what he knows and its not what he has proved good at.
As Glasner said in the past when talking about his favoured formation (when its not working well) If you believe in what you are doing and its not going well you dont change it. You work harder. This is what our players need to be doing.
I'd definitely go with the more experienced Lerma at the back with Richards and Canvot needs to just knuckle down and concentrate better. Mitchell and Kalaili need to be reminded that wide defence is their job, not Timber's and we need to get back to moving the ball quickly again.

When did it become impossible for managers to change tactics and formations to deliver results against different opponents, suit the players available and respond to conditions?

The reason Micthell and Khalali aren’t defending is clearly because they have been instructed to push up the pitch for example. Why is it impossible for Sage to adapt?

I really don’t buy it when a manager says they have one set of tactics and that is it. Their job is to get results where as some seem to think the results come second to their chosen approach.

Either Sage changes his approach or he gets fired. His choice at this point

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Watching how open United are losing 3-0 to Como, I’m wandering whether Carrick did his coaching badges with Sage 😇

 

[mtp1958]

That's good i look forward to see that tomorrow and Sunday.

Yes but thought you would have said why hasn't he done it already , that was my first thought

 

[NEILLO]

When did it become impossible for managers to change tactics and formations to deliver results against different opponents, suit the players available and respond to conditions?

The reason Micthell and Khalali aren’t defending is clearly because they have been instructed to push up the pitch for example. Why is it impossible for Sage to adapt?

I really don’t buy it when a manager says they have one set of tactics and that is it. Their job is to get results where as some seem to think the results come second to their chosen approach.

Either Sage changes his approach or he gets fired. His choice at this point

I’m not sure anybody on here is saying that results are secondary to tactics employed.

Has Sage stated that he only has one set of tactics ?

As I said on my earlier post in this thread, the club knew what they were getting when they employed Sage.

Now, because results and performances aren’t meeting expectations Sage is getting flack. Perfectly understandable being a results business. But someone in the Palace hierarchy bought into his way of thinking when he was appointed. I don’t know who that or they are but they must accept responsibility if Sage is dispensed with

 

[JHB]

I’m not sure anybody on here is saying that results are secondary to tactics employed.

Has Sage stated that he only has one set of tactics ?

As I said on my earlier post in this thread, the club knew what they were getting when they employed Sage.

Now, because results and performances aren’t meeting expectations Sage is getting flack. Perfectly understandable being a results business. But someone in the Palace hierarchy bought into his way of thinking when he was appointed. I don’t know who that or they are but they must accept responsibility if Sage is dispensed with

Yes I agree. There is plenty of blame to go around. Appointing a manager new to the Premier League with an expansive style when we were in rebuild phase. That was a poor decision. Then a poor transfer window leaving big holes in key positions. Then the manager refusing to adapt and continuing with tactics that are making us a shambles.