US Politics

[Stirlingsays]

Because of earlier complications we were worried and did early scans and did one at 7 weeks, 10 weeks and then the main one at 12 weeks. At 7 weeks we heard the heartbeat. It was amazing! ❤️

For IVF thank God we didint need it in the end as the day we were supposed to start it the day I got back from Leipzig we got the positive test. Its certainly a moral quandary and somthing I was not keen on doing so a relief in the end. It has it benefits but also as pointed out unused fertilized eggs (life) get discarded and that was what I was having trouble wrapping my head around. I'm not one for overshare here normally maybe it's the pints 😅

It's the most amazing first introduction to the next generation!

 

[Stirlingsays]

That you choose Grok as your researcher says quite a lot, before we start on the analysis!

The accusation seems primarily that the explanation is “inaccurate or over simplified”.

To an expert that may well be true, but it wasn’t addressed to an expert. It was simplified to enable someone who admits to being ignorant to grasp the point. The development of a nervous system is indeed the precursor to the development of the brain, but only the precursor. A functioning brain, which establishes sentience, doesn’t exist until the 3rd trimester. Every stage prior to that is developmental. From the sperm and egg, through fertilisation etc. etc.

So the question about where the line is drawn is important and your answer, being based solely on emotion, is illogical.

I most definitely, despite Grok’s response to questions we have not seen, but I wager were loaded, am not treating philosophical/ethical reasoning as if it were settled science. I fully understand and respect the difference. You though don’t.

I am as emotionally responsive to childbirth as anyone else. I understand the over powering impact it has. I am though able to set that aside and try to understand why very difficult decisions must be made.

What a load of claptrap, you just ignored the points made showing that you're wrong as usual.

You seem to be in ignorance of the fact, even though Grok told you, that the brain develops through the nine months, not within its last stage as a 'functioning brain'.

My position is that abortion is morally wrong once the development of the nervous system off and running, which was correctly stated around about my personal cut off time of seven weeks....with Grok saying it could be as early as five.

That's not 'emotional', as Grok told you it comes down to an assessment, I have a criteria and the seven week 'heartbeat' is hardly just my opinion, many share it.....Something you clearly ignored in deliberate selective commentary.

In fact I referred to Grok is see how common my opinion is and it's a significant minority of people who share my view. I'll share it.

Prevalence in public opinion (mainly U.S. data, where most detailed polling exists)​

Support for restricting abortion once cardiac activity is detectable generally falls in the 35–45% range in national polls of the general public, with higher numbers among Republicans, conservatives, and those who already favor limits. Opposition is usually higher (often 50–60%), consistent with broader majorities that support legal abortion in the first trimester but favor increasing restrictions as pregnancy progresses.

• Gallup (2023): 37% favored laws banning abortion after a fetal heartbeat can be detected (~6 weeks); 59% opposed. Results were similar to 2019.⁠News.gallup
• Pew Research (2022): When asked specifically about 6 weeks (the approximate time cardiac activity is detectable), 44% said abortion should be legal at that stage, 21% said it should be illegal, and 19% said “it depends.” Support for legality drops and opposition rises at later points (14 weeks and 24 weeks).⁠Pewresearch

As for your criteria, it just fits with my assessment that you're an evil piece of work.

 

[HKOwen]

Because of earlier complications we were worried and did early scans and did one at 7 weeks, 10 weeks and then the main one at 12 weeks. At 7 weeks we heard the heartbeat. It was amazing! ❤️

For IVF thank God we didint need it in the end as the day we were supposed to start it the day I got back from Leipzig we got the positive test. Its certainly a moral quandary and somthing I was not keen on doing so a relief in the end. It has it benefits but also as pointed out unused fertilized eggs (life) get discarded and that was what I was having trouble wrapping my head around. I'm not one for overshare here normally maybe it's the pints 😅

Just curious, is there an option to donate the unused fertilized eggs ?

Happy to hear things worked out

 

[eaglesdare]

Just curious, is there an option to donate the unused fertilized eggs ?

Happy to hear things worked out

There is the option to keep them frozen in case they are needed again and you can donate but it's highly regulated and a lot of clinics don't offer this. There's a video of Charlie Kirk talking about it I'll see if I can dig it out later.

 

[Mark B]

So Mark you’re unworried about the US deficit?

Honestly, not really. The US' unique position when it comes to the deficit as compared to every other country in the world. It just gets to play by a set of rules that no one else can play by.

What I am worried about is the unwillingness to pay the deficit. That is where my concern is as spending just keeps going up and up and what we will see in the future is expansion of social services (which already take up the military of the spending). It is just too easy to promise new things to get voters on your side, especially when the majority of those votes are not actually paying anything in taxes.

 

[Runningman]

Honestly, not really. The US' unique position when it comes to the deficit as compared to every other country in the world. It just gets to play by a set of rules that no one else can play by.

What I am worried about is the unwillingness to pay the deficit. That is where my concern is as spending just keeps going up and up and what we will see in the future is expansion of social services (which already take up the military of the spending). It is just too easy to promise new things to get voters on your side, especially when the majority of those votes are not actually paying anything in taxes.

You’re just emulating the UK policy now ! 🤬

 

[Mark B]

That’s total BS! Their legitimate interest starts and finishes with knowing that the sentence passed has been carried out. There are witnesses that can testify, if anyone has doubts.

No one is shielded from that knowledge. The date and time are known. You don’t need to turn it into a public spectacle. Civilised society stopped doing that a long time ago.

The potential damage that allowing the public to view could cause (to children or the vulnerable) far outweighs any conceivable benefit. So in any civilised society it doesn’t happen. Does the USA seriously want to damage its already tarnished reputation even more?

You and just about everyone reading this has a Western centric-bias of what it means to be civilized. You are looking at the world through the lens of your education and experiences and mirror those views on the rest of the world. The majority of the people in this world do not share your opinions.

National reputation is essentially irrelevant. The US doesn't care what the rest of the world has to say because your opinions simply don't matter because of how two-faced you are in what you say publicly and what you do privately. Europeans have hated Americans for the last 250 years and only appreciate them when they need something from them.

 

[Mark B]

You’re just emulating the UK policy now ! 🤬

In many ways, yes. But is that surprising in that we would have many share similarities?

The difference being that the US can pull it off economically while the UK is challenged to become the global economic powerhouse that it once was.

 

[Runningman]

In many ways, yes. But is that surprising in that we would have many share similarities?

The difference being that the US can pull it off economically while the UK is challenged to become the global economic powerhouse that it once was.

Won’t happen under a tax and spend government

 

[Mark B]

They would. of been semi-automatic as you can't legally own a fully automatic version, so it wouldn't be anything like the weapons that the Taliban would use. One pull, one bullet.

That he was scared of a California compliant AK47 is hilarious. With its boring 10 round magazine you can't even really have any fun with it. And to be honest, most American don't have multiple AKs around there house as they are inefficient for close quarters home protection, especially in San Francisco.

Now sidearms and shotguns, sure, absolutely, doesn't everyone keep a few around the house in different spots just in case a zombie apocalypse occurs or the machines take over and you need to shoot the toaster?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

What a load of claptrap, you just ignored the points made showing that you're wrong as usual.

You seem to be in ignorance of the fact, even though Grok told you, that the brain develops through the nine months, not within its last stage as a 'functioning brain'.

My position is that abortion is morally wrong once the development of the nervous system off and running, which was correctly stated around about my personal cut off time of seven weeks....with Grok saying it could be as early as five.

That's not 'emotional', as Grok told you it comes down to an assessment, I have a criteria and the seven week 'heartbeat' is hardly just my opinion, many share it.....Something you clearly ignored in deliberate selective commentary.

In fact I referred to Grok is see how common my opinion is and it's a significant minority of people who share my view. I'll share it.

Prevalence in public opinion (mainly U.S. data, where most detailed polling exists)​

Support for restricting abortion once cardiac activity is detectable generally falls in the 35–45% range in national polls of the general public, with higher numbers among Republicans, conservatives, and those who already favor limits. Opposition is usually higher (often 50–60%), consistent with broader majorities that support legal abortion in the first trimester but favor increasing restrictions as pregnancy progresses.

• Gallup (2023): 37% favored laws banning abortion after a fetal heartbeat can be detected (~6 weeks); 59% opposed. Results were similar to 2019.⁠News.gallup
• Pew Research (2022): When asked specifically about 6 weeks (the approximate time cardiac activity is detectable), 44% said abortion should be legal at that stage, 21% said it should be illegal, and 19% said “it depends.” Support for legality drops and opposition rises at later points (14 weeks and 24 weeks).⁠Pewresearch

As for your criteria, it just fits with my assessment that you're an evil piece of work.

As you even use exactly the same word as I do, all this does is confirm exactly what I said. All that exists before a sentient brain exists is development. Development begins at the moment of fertilisation. So why pick any particular point along the path between the start and the finish?

It’s entirely illogical and to do so cannot be explained by anything remotely scientific. To describe your reasoning as “moral” is every bit as illogical. It’s nothing to do with morals. It’s purely emotional.

To then try to justify your position by quoting polling from the USA is risible. The lack of understanding there is even worse than here. So much being based on religious sentiment that it can simply be disregarded as ignorant clap trap.

Grok, quite correctly in my view, has a reputation for providing answers that are politically slanted and offers opinions on subjects like this that are not strictly neutral. Hence my scepticism. I don’t use it as there are better options. Nevertheless, to try to ensure you take this seriously I asked it to:- “Describe the way the brain develops in the womb and when it reaches the stage of sentience”. These are paragraphs from a long answer:-

“Brain development in the womb begins very early and proceeds through rapid, sequential stages of structure formation, neuron production, connection-building, and folding, continuing well beyond birth. Sentience (the capacity for subjective experience or basic awareness) has no single agreed-upon onset but is widely considered possible only after key thalamocortical connections form, typically from around 24 weeks of gestation onward, with stronger evidence for rudimentary forms later in the third trimester or near birth”.

“When does sentience emerge?

Sentience requires more than basic neural activity or reflexes—it involves the capacity for subjective experience, typically linked to integrated thalamocortical networks that process sensory information at a cortical level. There is no scientific consensus on an exact moment, as consciousness is gradual, hard to measure directly in utero, and debated in definition (minimal sensory awareness vs. richer forms).


• Lower bound (anatomical prerequisite): Thalamocortical connections (thalamus to cortical plate) begin forming around 23–26 weeks (often cited as 24–28 weeks). Before this, sensory signals largely stop at the subplate; subcortical reflexes exist but lack cortical integration needed for conscious experience. Many sources conclude it is unlikely the fetus is conscious before ~24 weeks.


• Evidence for possible early forms: From the late second/early third trimester onward, some imaging and behavioral data (e.g., responses to auditory patterns, sequence learning in late-term fetuses via magnetoencephalography) suggest rudimentary sensory processing or primary consciousness may be possible, especially after ~28–35 weeks. Functional networks mature further later.


• Caveats and later views: The uterine environment (low oxygen, placental sedatives like adenosine and neurosteroids) keeps the fetus mostly in sleep-like states (~95% of the time in late gestation). Even with the hardware present, active conscious experience may be limited until birth or later, when arousal systems activate. Some place a more plausible functional onset around 30 weeks or nearer term; others argue for birth or early infancy as clearer points of reliable consciousness. Sentience is not binary but develops along a continuum.


In summary, structural foundations form from the first weeks, with massive expansion and connectivity in the second and third trimesters. The neural prerequisites for sentience appear around the start of the third trimester (~24 weeks), but functional, experienced awareness is more strongly supported later in pregnancy or after birth, remaining an active area of research without a definitive single threshold.“

 

[Stirlingsays]

Evil.

 

[silvertop]

Won’t happen under a tax and spend government

Just wont happen, same way I cant see the Mongols making a come back any time soon.

The world has moved on.

 

[silvertop]

Honestly, not really. The US' unique position when it comes to the deficit as compared to every other country in the world. It just gets to play by a set of rules that no one else can play by.

What I am worried about is the unwillingness to pay the deficit. That is where my concern is as spending just keeps going up and up and what we will see in the future is expansion of social services (which already take up the military of the spending). It is just too easy to promise new things to get voters on your side, especially when the majority of those votes are not actually paying anything in taxes.

The pre-penultimate words of every empire as it grinds to an ignominious end. But a view widely shared by many of your countrymen.

You can't imagine an end to US hegemony because dominance and being the biggest has become embedded in your political consciousness - “imperialist realism.” I see that in your casual indifference to your unserviceable debt.

We had that as late as the 1930s in spades and elements live on (see some of the posts by our older posters).

The end is not imminent. It is a slow painful degrading masked by spikes of apparently healthy economic performance. There is international competition that will erode your power, but empires never crumble due to external forces. It is always internal dysfunction and overreach... you have plenty of both... and they are getting worse.

I suspect the process is reversible, but only through a great deal of pain. However, any regime that tries faces a nation fed on imperialist realism unwilling to both face the task or pay the price.

Our generation will sigh and say - at least not in my lifetime.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

Now sidearms and shotguns, sure, absolutely, doesn't everyone keep a few around the house in different spots just in case a zombie apocalypse occurs or the machines take over and you need to shoot the toaster?

Terminator movies never even thought about AI replacing all the office-workers. No need for a killer robot. Not when you can just as easily make everybody redundant. And then allow Darwin to take effect.

 

[HKOwen]

Terminator movies never even thought about AI replacing all the office-workers. No need for a killer robot. Not when you can just as easily make everybody redundant. And then allow Darwin to take effect.

Hollywood never envisioned a world where an enemy could win by having AI turn off all the utilities power supply, causing meltdowns in nuclear power stations or crashing the trains etc. ( They probably did but but I haven't seen the film, there was a TV series about a world with no electricity )

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That he was scared of a California compliant AK47 is hilarious. With its boring 10 round magazine you can't even really have any fun with it. And to be honest, most American don't have multiple AKs around there house as they are inefficient for close quarters home protection, especially in San Francisco.

Now sidearms and shotguns, sure, absolutely, doesn't everyone keep a few around the house in different spots just in case a zombie apocalypse occurs or the machines take over and you need to shoot the toaster?

Like most of us in the UK I am largely, thankfully, unfamiliar with guns. I have never held one, let alone fired one. I was once in a theatre production in which one of the cast used an imitation weapon and the controls over even that were extreme. Nevertheless, having lived in the Philippines where one of my friends murdered by a gun, and a site employee shot and killed a few minutes after I was talking to him I am extremely nervous. I know what they can do.

 

[Spindle]

Did you even read what I wrote? I understand the biological definition. Which is something determined at birth. This is a person’s sex.

What you completely overlook, or wilfully deny, is that someone’s sex does not always match their gender. Why this happens is an emerging science but that it does is real. It’s not imaginary. The research suggests it has to do with brain development and hormone imbalances.

When a person's internal sense of gender does not match their physical body or assigned sex, it can cause long-term distress known as gender dysphoria. This mismatch is not a choice or a social trend, but an inherent component of how the individual's mind and nervous system developed.

You supporting it all is a part of it. It's no surprise that mental illness runs rife through your line

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You and just about everyone reading this has a Western centric-bias of what it means to be civilized. You are looking at the world through the lens of your education and experiences and mirror those views on the rest of the world. The majority of the people in this world do not share your opinions.

National reputation is essentially irrelevant. The US doesn't care what the rest of the world has to say because your opinions simply don't matter because of how two-faced you are in what you say publicly and what you do privately. Europeans have hated Americans for the last 250 years and only appreciate them when they need something from them.

Having never asked them I don’t know. What I do know is that by far the majority of the people I have met all have much more in common than they have which separates them. That includes many in the US and in SE Asia, as well as Europe. Family, safety, friends and colleagues, good health, kindness to others. These things are valued everywhere.

We don’t hate you. Increasingly we pity you. You have got yourselves into a self defeating downwards spiral, yet many don’t even realise it.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You supporting it all is a part of it. It's no surprise that mental illness runs rife through your line

You clearly don’t have any real knowledge of this subject. You are just bound up by your prejudice. Until you escape that mindset you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.