The Academy

I think in theory the youth team model would work if all the clubs played ball, while I'm for what we are doing I do think you have a point insomuch as closing their academy worked ok for Brentford back in the day didn't it.

They closed because the EPPP compensation rules delivered tiny fees when bigger clubs poached their best teens. They replaced it with a B-team model for ages 17–21, recruiting released Premier League prospects and overseas talent, organising their own high-level friendlies. It worked out for them (Premiership rules meant that they had to restart an academy and now they have an Category 1 academy)

However, by the same token, the same approach didn't work out for Wycombe Wanderers or Bolton Wanderers.

I also think you have a point about an identikit approach in the Premiership and with coaching.....not that I think this actually happened in Zaha's case. In fact I think Palace's record in terms of keeping an individual player's flair while helping them professionalise other facets of their game does stand up.

I do think the Cat 1 academy approach is the better option for Palace.....I could bore you with reasons for why but I think you probably know why. I'll only do so if you ask but others have probably already mentioned them.

That said I think the question about academies is always a question worth the asking.
When Spurs poached Bostock we couldn't agree a fee. They argued at the tribunal that they were taking a risk on an unproven player hence the amount they offered and the tribunal agreed.

I always thought that a nonsense decision. Spurs poach a player but complain they are taking a risk. He was our player and we were prepared to take a risk on him.

The tribunal rules should reflect that if a club wants to poach a player it's their risk and they should pay top dollar whatever that is. Don't want to take a risk then don't poach.
 
I think in theory the youth team model would work if all the clubs played ball, while I'm for what we are doing I do think you have a point insomuch as closing their academy worked ok for Brentford back in the day didn't it.

They closed because the EPPP compensation rules delivered tiny fees when bigger clubs poached their best teens. They replaced it with a B-team model for ages 17–21, recruiting released Premier League prospects and overseas talent, organising their own high-level friendlies. It worked out for them (Premiership rules meant that they had to restart an academy and now they have an Category 1 academy)

However, by the same token, the same approach didn't work out for Wycombe Wanderers or Bolton Wanderers.

I also think you have a point about an identikit approach in the Premiership and with coaching.....not that I think this actually happened in Zaha's case. In fact I think Palace's record in terms of keeping an individual player's flair while helping them professionalise other facets of their game does stand up.

I do think the Cat 1 academy approach is the better option for Palace.....I could bore you with reasons for why but I think you probably know why. I'll only do so if you ask but others have probably already mentioned them.

That said I think the question about academies is always a question worth the asking.
The recent posts on here have confirmed my long held views that:

Firstly: It is possibly a mistake to view a Cat A academy as inherently more likely to produce better players than an old school youth team used to be. If you were somehow able to put the best ten kids in South London through a modern academy, and then repeat the experiment and put them through a 1990's youth team, its not obvious to me that the first process would certainly produce better players.

Fundamentally, getting the best kids to train with each other and play against other good kids is the best education possible. It's hard to say whether a certain kid might have fared better in one set up or the other. Perhaps some would wilt under the worst of the old-school semi-bullying (as and where it existed) or struggle without the tactical micro-management that seems common now. Then again, perhaps others would be far better for having proved themselves, or far more resourceful, creative, and street-wise on the pitch having not had it all coached out of them. Hard to tell. What is obvious is that the number coming through at Palace hasn't increased, nor changed much over the years.

Secondly, and ultimately, it doesn't matter as Palace have no choice but to play ball. We must have an all-singing all-dancing academy set up even if only to secure the benefits that used be derived from an old-fashioned youth team (i.e. somewhere to develop talented kids, including having them play against other talented kids). In fact, we must have one even if it doesn't do those things.

I suppose I would advise against any hopes that the investment has significantly improved the chances of a youth player making it here. It might not even produce better players than have been produced in the past. Different, but perhaps not better. That's perhaps not what one would instinctively expect from such a significant investment.
 
I now view our academy as a philanthropic exercise in South London. As has been said we are required to have one so there can be no discussion about abandonment. How much we spend on it might be a topic and yes we do recoup a few million here and there on transfer fees. Alas it doesn't produce first team talent and I sense we are not alone in that regard. Tyrick Mitchell now 27 and I'm overlooking the Brentford connection.
And the answer is, frankly I don't know, maybe we just carry on offering a dream to a limited number of kids, a very small proportion of whom may partly realise those dreams ie lower league football.
 
I know someone who used to teach at the Academy (volunteer) he tried to get into the kids heads that education was important as they would be lucky if one of their class made it at any level. Of course the kids don't listen because they all think they will be that one.

In fairness to Palace from what I have heard they do try and prepare these kids for a life outside of football, however you can take a horse to water.....
 
I know someone who used to teach at the Academy (volunteer) he tried to get into the kids heads that education was important as they would be lucky if one of their class made it at any level. Of course the kids don't listen because they all think they will be that one.

In fairness to Palace from what I have heard they do try and prepare these kids for a life outside of football, however you can take a horse to water.....
Do they not have qualified teachers and normal school subjects? Or do they go to the academy and school?
 
Do they not have qualified teachers and normal school subjects? Or do they go to the academy and school?
The answer to this is - it depends...

On the Category of the Academy, age of the kid, and whether they are local or not.

Cat 1: want to sign a younger player from far away- they can relocate the kid and house with a host family and relocate their school (Palace and Chelsea often use Whitgift - Club will fund all of this) - kid goes to school as usual - trains in the evening and usually also had one day release from school as well (some studying during this day at the academy).

Once they become an apprentice (leave school at 16) the Academy takes over education - Btech is the baseline education - some bring in teachers to teach this - some send to local colleges for a day or so per week. For the more academic (ie, those who would have done A levels if they stayed on at school) the Academy depending on it's Cat may employ part time subject teachers (key subjects like Maths, English etc) if not a 'key' subject then the course could be done at the local college (Charlton use Greenwich) or even online now (EFL engage with a company called Minerva) - Whichever route the kid takes, most educational needs are met as long as the kid/parents want that as a back up and are prepared to put in the study / work.

The hard part is convincing the Kid they must have a plan B
 
When Spurs poached Bostock we couldn't agree a fee. They argued at the tribunal that they were taking a risk on an unproven player hence the amount they offered and the tribunal agreed.

I always thought that a nonsense decision. Spurs poach a player but complain they are taking a risk. He was our player and we were prepared to take a risk on him.

The tribunal rules should reflect that if a club wants to poach a player it's their risk and they should pay top dollar whatever that is. Don't want to take a risk then don't poach.
One of the most partial decisions I have witnessed in football (although we still await the Man City appeal). Simon Jordan cites it as one reason he got out of the game. He described the FA panel as "...a panel of halfwits..." but I think his assessment was misdescribed. There was nothing wrong with their intellect.
 
One of the most partial decisions I have witnessed in football (although we still await the Man City appeal). Simon Jordan cites it as one reason he got out of the game. He described the FA panel as "...a panel of halfwits..." but I think his assessment was misdescribed. There was nothing wrong with their intellect.
Harvey Elliot became Fulham's youngest player to ever play first team football (and possibly the leagues youngest player) as Fulham knew he wasn't going to sign a new contract as Liverpool were circling.

He would have gone for the 'standard' compensation for an academy player at the time - but once he'd 'crossed the line' and stepped onto the pitch as a first team player then the compensation is different and can be argued out at a tribunal as he's now a first team player
 

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