The Long-term Unemployed

eaglesdare said:
Surely because they have been given a free house and free benefits? Remove the incentives and they go back to work?
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For the vast majority of them, if you took their house and benefits away you'd be putting them onto the street.

The jobs aren't out there that will pay their rents because most of them aren't qualified or bright enough to do them and earn that amount.

The problems that exist now were built up over fifty/sixty years.....it isn't a one and done solution.

To just refer to one of the problems....the state encouraged single motherhood via its indirect incentives, whereas in the past the point for young woman was to find a chap to support them with the idea that she would give him a family......But that messaging has been absent since the 60s.

All that was washed away in a sea of ideology but the economics of that old model actually worked, whereas the new model was and is on an egg timer.

The solutions will happen naturally with welfare collapse......Anyone seriously looking to implement it before that would be booted out of power.
 
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grumpymort said:
Provide the evidence of this please I would like to see a long term study or data to back this up.

I know from people I have encountered all over the world with many different backgrounds also ones which work others which have never this is not the case.

Out of interest how much salary wise do you earn per year? and do you own your home?

I bet you are the sort of person who jumps on the disabled people are getting free packages as well.
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Just my opinion. If you have evidence to state otherwise then you can share.

And obviously my salary, occupation and home ownership status is none of your business.

And no I do not jump on genuine disabled people who received supports.
 
grumpymort said:
No again you are going with same old stereotype stories.

Your belief is you say to a person we are going to take your benefits away unless you get a job will make them wake up the next day rush to get a job? If so you are not in the real world.

A large % of the people you mention who have the houses and are claiming also have children.

People need to be more open minded and take each case as it is not everyone is the same.

Companies get a free ride they are one of the biggest issues exploiting people with minimum pay or abusing the worker rights situation (Very few jobs have any security anymore which is another reason why some people do not see the point of getting a job)
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I agree with a lot of this until the last paragraph where you are attacking companies.

The world of business is not to service people and give them good livings, it's to survive in a competitive environment and make some profit for those who took the risk of investing in them.

The point to making a good living is in individuals having skills and abilities (which they are meant to learn in their early life before work or during work training) that mean they are valuable to employers.

So the emphasis is on the individual not companies......Companies go bankrupt every day and no one gives a feck.
 
Basically we are fecked.

The fruits of so many fecked up ideas are coming home to roost and while I know some will, I take zero pleasure in it.

Watching our David Brent of a PM rushing about obsessed with the media thinking he can solve Britain's problems with the state.....Well, it just confirms what we know.

People will continue with bad ideas right up until the wolf is at the door and they are forced to change.

Even then, the truth is that a lot of them would rather go down with the Titanic and take you with them rather than accept reality.

A lot of people are more Trump like than they would like to admit.
 
Stirlingsays said:
For the vast majority of them, if you took their house and benefits away you'd be putting them onto the street.
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there would be differences of opinion on the desirability of this. In the US they have the 'working poor'.....people who do a full-time job and yet are still homeless. Its nasty but true. Such people would love to be given a Council House.....and very deserving.

And thinking of the plight of all the Polish plumbers & electricians who work in the UK & send money back to the wife & kids in Krakow. Those men would also love some free accommodation in Blighty.......especially after the Inland Revenue gets at them.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
The solutions will happen naturally with welfare collapse......Anyone seriously looking to implement it before that would be booted out of power.
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currently the UK borrows money to PAY THE INTEREST ON....all the debts. Its like a terminal cancer-patient trying to get an energy-boost by drinking a lot of Red Bull.

The Longterm unemployed have never helped any nation thrive nor be competitive.
 
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My next door neighbours have always deliberately avoided work. How would I know? Well we've heard the Mum (she's actually a great grandma but she's banged out kids of a wide variety of ages) in the garden coaching her daughters how to fail interviews and claim maximum benefits. They seem to have been doing this generation after generation and I get the impression they are fine with the standard of living presented to them via the benefit system. They won't be unaware that a better standard of living exists, they just don't seem to crave it enough to work for it.

What's my point? I'm not sure. There are days where I shake my head and there are days where I wonder if they've got it right. I have a moderately stressful job (others have more stress than me, I'm not complaining) and I spend a lot of time worrying that one day I can't pay my mortgage or continue the savings I have started for my children, and yet there are people with none of this stress who will die content. Nothing to show for their lives, but not unhappy.

I personally think benefits are too appealing to truly incentivise working a 9 to 5. I cringe when people suggest they are increased. But I don't really blame the people who claim what's on offer if it can fund a quality of life they are ok with.
 
PalazioVecchio said:
currently the UK borrows money to PAY THE INTEREST ON....all the debts. Its like a terminal cancer-patient trying to get an energy-boost by drinking a lot of Red Bull.

The Longterm unemployed have never helped any nation thrive nor be competitive.
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Well yeah, but the latter aren't to blame for the former.

The situation amongst the young is something they were both born into and encouraged into.

This is a boomer created situation and while I fully recognise the problems it's a bit rich that the weakest get blamed for the problems created by the strongest in society.

It'll self correct when democracy goes south.
 
Part Time James said:
I personally think benefits are too appealing to truly incentivise working a 9 to 5. I cringe when people suggest they are increased. But I don't really blame the people who claim what's on offer if it can fund a quality of life they are ok with.
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If you were advising this family from their current position would you tell them to give up their benefits....which is probably housing benefit and dole money and getting jobs?

Now I would do that if the job market that existed for them could replace that benefit money.

If it does and they are able to get those jobs then great.

Otherwise how are they going to get by?

The reality is that they are probably products of the social messaging that has existed for about fifty years of the state borrowing ever larger amounts of money to exist as debt economies.

That will come to an end naturally.....and while we can point to families like theirs and feel a sense of justice the reality is that pensioners will also suffer the same fate.

A lot of worthy people also receive benefits and when the system collapses it won't just be the layabouts who suffer.

It's inevitable and it's going to be horrible.

I'm available for parties, birthdays and other morale raising events.
 
Stirlingsays said:
If you were advising this family from their current position would you tell them to give up their benefits....which is probably housing benefit and dole money and getting jobs?

Now I would do that if the job market that existed for them could replace that benefit money.

If it does and they are able to get those jobs then great.

Otherwise how are they going to get by?

The reality is that they are probably products of the social messaging that has existed for about fifty years of the state borrowing ever larger amounts of money to exist as debt economies.

That will come to an end naturally.....and while we can point to families like theirs and feel a sense of justice the reality is that pensioners will also suffer the same fate.

A lot of worthy people also receive benefits and when the system collapses it won't just be the layabouts who suffer.

It's inevitable and it's going to be horrible.

I'm available for parties and other morale raising events.
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Well I think this is essentially what I am saying. I would advise them to carry on doing what makes them happy. I suppose my point is, while I bust my balls for my family should I instead mimic their lifestyle?

It's rhetorical. It's not how I've been brought up and I therefore have different standards. But for all the hard work I put in, I often wonder whether I should bother.
 
Thought I ask chat GPT - said I was a 40 year old, married but my wife is disabled. 3 children under 16 all with adhd. The rent is £1000 per month (cheap I know).

So my fiction life comes in at £2900 per month. That would be net salary.

How right it is I really don’t know but if correct I can see why a lot of people would make this lifestyle choice. Add a bit of work on the side and you’ve got a reasonable salary.
 
Part Time James said:
Well I think this is essentially what I am saying. I would advise them to carry on doing what makes them happy. I suppose my point is, while I bust my balls for my family should I instead mimic their lifestyle?

It's rhetorical. It's not how I've been brought up and I therefore have different standards. But for all the hard work I put in, I often wonder whether I should bother.
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I get that and you're right you have different standards and it is those standards that will ultimately serve you better than it will them.

When the wolf comes, it'll come to their door a long time if ever it comes to yours.

Keep your job and do all you can to value it......As employers would love to replace many of us with automation.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I get that and you're right you have different standards and it is those standards that will ultimately serve you better than it will them.

When the wolf comes, it'll come to their door a long time if ever it comes to yours.

Keep your job and do all you can to value it......As employers would love to replace many of us with automation.
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There's nothing really tempting me otherwise, it's just a question I periodically ask myself whereby the answer is "no". As much as I don't really blame them, it feels unfair. Not least when I am working from home in the Summer and have to close my windows so they can swear loudly in the garden over infinite cans of Fosters 😂
 
Part Time James said:
There's nothing really tempting me otherwise, it's just a question I periodically ask myself whereby the answer is "no". As much as I don't really blame them, it feels unfair. Not least when I am working from home in the Summer and have to close my windows so they can swear loudly in the garden over infinite cans of Fosters 😂
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To be a chav
Or not be a chav.

That is the question.

Oh the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
 
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