War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

I don't blame them for wanting to make the military more representative of UK society.

But I do blame them for suddenly switching to an all-white cast once an actual war is on the cards.
I hope everyone, white, black and every other shade tells them to go do one.

Defend our borders ffs. Who gives a feck about Ukraine.

Yep, when combat looks more likely they stop with the minority casting for recruitment focus and suddenly you see the focus on whitey.

 

[Mark B]

Reminds me of all that advertising money thrown down the drain promoting the military to ethnic minorities because socially liberal elites want to live lies about the vast majority of them giving a feck about this country other than what they can suck out of it.

We had the same thing happen in the US, military recruiting budgets focused on women and minorities doing support jobs. They even put quotes on how many white males could join in order to encourage others to join and all it did was hurt recruiting. The only American service that refused to play the game was the Marine Corps and they never had the same recruiting challenges.

An once the recruiting videos came out that focused on white males in combat arms jumping out of planes and getting ready to kill people everyone said the same thing. We don't know where, but we know the US is going to war with someone soon.

 

[Badger11]

We had the same thing happen in the US, military recruiting budgets focused on women and minorities doing support jobs. They even put quotes on how many white males could join in order to encourage others to join and all it did was hut recruiting. The only American service that refused to play the game was the Marine Corps and they never had the same recruiting challenges.

An once the recruiting videos came out that focused on white males in combat arms jumping out of planes and getting ready to kill people everyone said the same thing. We don't know where, but we know the US is going to war with someone soon.

The army had a advert showing a Muslim soldier praying whilst his mates stood around respectfully.

The Royal Marines had a great advert of conning a warlord into thinking the Brits had run away as he leaves they all emerge from cover and quietly follow him.

The military is about protecting your country and killing your enemies, you can't sugar coat it. Some people are up for that type of role others aren't.

 

[silvertop]

Reminds me of all that advertising money thrown down the drain promoting the military to ethnic minorities because socially liberal elites want to live lies about the vast majority of them giving a feck about this country other than what they can suck out of it.

I agree with this, with a but.

Obviously not wholly analogous (money, fame and playing a game for a living might play a part) but our beloved football team is a mish-mash of races, religions and cultures. Yet it functions pretty good (see Palace thread).

Likewise, select the best from our ethnic mix and you could have a pretty decent military.

At least give it a go. Shake the tree and see what falls.

If they stick stubbornly to the branch and adopt the attitude you suggest, then feck 'em.

But at least we tried.

Btw, I am talking about recruitment drives. Not quotas and all that bollox. You dilute the force that way.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I agree with this, with a but.

Obviously not wholly analogous (money, fame and playing a game for a living might play a part) but our beloved football team is a mish-mash of races, religions and cultures. Yet it functions pretty good (see Palace thread).

Likewise, select the best from our ethnic mix and you could have a pretty decent military.

At least give it a go. Shake the tree and see what falls.

If they stick stubbornly to the branch and adopt the attitude you suggest, then feck 'em.

But at least we tried.

Btw, I am talking about recruitment drives. Not quotas and all that bollox. You dilute the force that way.

The idea that you have to advertise the British military and that's going to convince a meaningful number of ethnic minorities to sign up isn't going to happen. More ethnic minorities of the Islamic faith joined ISIS than the British military. It's selling lies and it has an impact.

It lowers morale amongst those that think the emphasis should be on those demographics who naturally make up the vast majority of sign ups and actually works against recruitment.

For example, I come from a military family and in the past I would be proud to have my sons follow in those well worn footsteps. But today, I wouldn't let my sons join the military because the leadership culture of the modern military is anti nationalist and in some cases anti white.....which is a ridiculously sick joke when you think about it.

Yeah, shake the tree and thus ignore human nature and outcomes isn't a good argument in my view.....Not if you actually want better results.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The army had a advert showing a Muslim soldier praying whilst his mates stood around respectfully.

The Royal Marines had a great advert of conning a warlord into thinking the Brits had run away as he leaves they all emerge from cover and quietly follow him.

The military is about protecting your country and killing your enemies, you can't sugar coat it. Some people are up for that type of role others aren't.

In the real world those people wouldn't be 'Brits', they would be people paid off to turn.....like most intelligence work in that situation.

 

[silvertop]

The idea that you have to advertise the British military and that's going to convince a meaningful number of ethnic minorities to sign up isn't going to happen. More ethnic minorities of the Islamic faith joined ISIS than the British military. It's selling lies and it has an impact.

It lowers morale amongst those that think the emphasis should be on those demographics who naturally make up the vast majority of sign ups and actually works against recruitment.

For example, I come from a military family and in the past I would be proud to have my sons follow in those well worn footsteps. But today, I wouldn't let my sons join the military because the leadership culture of the modern military is anti nationalist and in some cases anti white.....which is a ridiculously sick joke when you think about it.

Yeah, shake the tree and thus ignore human nature and outcomes isn't a good argument in my view.....Not if you actually want better results.

It's merit and merit only for me.

Any candidate getting a by to sidestep physical and mental requirements is not OK with me unless that is applied across the board. Eg I'd rather have sailors who are 90% than less destroyers or subs. Tough choices.

I note you focus on Islamic candidates. I responded in relation to all non whites. Afro Carribbean, Chinese, Korean, miscellaneous...

Also, a bit broad brush on Islamic. Those of Pakistani origin I would need persuasion of commitment and loyalty. But those of Malaysian or Omani extraction...?

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's merit and merit only for me.

Any candidate getting a by to sidestep physical and mental requirements is not OK with me unless that is applied across the board. Eg I'd rather have sailors who are 90% than less destroyers or subs. Tough choices.

I note you focus on Islamic candidates. I responded in relation to all non whites. Afro Carribbean, Chinese, Korean, miscellaneous...

Also, a bit broad brush on Islamic. Those of Pakistani origin I would need persuasion of commitment and loyalty. But those of Malaysian or Omani extraction...?

You are of course correct that merit is of course the vital metric to a professional military (though any conflict of major size or length will have to be conscripted).

Loyalty, may not be an obviously measurable metric that can get you entry into the Royal Marines, but it is an even more important metric than merit as loyalty is what ultimately binds a military.

And if the society you are feeding your military from is socially segmented and culturally diverse.....the military won't match previous generations.

Social liberals and the left have much to answer for......Not that they give a feck.

 

[Mark B]

The recruiting of non-native personnel into the military has required one essential component throughout the history of warfare, do they believe your values and are they willingly to live them.

Of a platoon I had, eight of them were non-Americans (7 from Mexico and Central America and one former Russian Paratrooper) and without a doubt I knew every single of them believed in American Values and were willing to take on the ethics and morals associated with with being an American. The biggest issue for the UK and even Canadian militaries is that they are focusing on the individual instead of the team as a collective. As much as Pete is an assclown, he's gotten that part right for the US.

The French Foreign Legion has this down to an absolute science. You join the Legion, the Legion doesn't join you. Gurkhas work the same way, they loyally follow the rules and execute their missions according to the rules that they have been given.

The answer was always there, you literally reinvented the modern skill of bringing foreigners into your military through centuries but warfighting got left behind when the focus became social justice and making pretty posters and making passionate speeches on the importance of military service by Transgender Lesbian Morbidly Obese Left Handed Muslims born in Pakistan who have Special Needs on Remembrance Sunday and forgetting about the ones who actually did the fighting.

 

[pssguy]

The idea that you have to advertise the British military and that's going to convince a meaningful number of ethnic minorities to sign up isn't going to happen. More ethnic minorities of the Islamic faith joined ISIS than the British military. It's selling lies and it has an impact.

It lowers morale amongst those that think the emphasis should be on those demographics who naturally make up the vast majority of sign ups and actually works against recruitment.

For example, I come from a military family and in the past I would be proud to have my sons follow in those well worn footsteps. But today, I wouldn't let my sons join the military because the leadership culture of the modern military is anti nationalist and in some cases anti white.....which is a ridiculously sick joke when you think about it.

Yeah, shake the tree and thus ignore human nature and outcomes isn't a good argument in my view.....Not if you actually want better results.

What's it like to have sons who don't make their own decisions?

 

[Stirlingsays]

What's it like to have sons who don't make their own decisions?

It will be their own decisions when they are old enough to take them.

However, just like the military was portrayed positively to me as a youngster when it was a very different institution. It will be portrayed negatively by me due to what it is today.

The left wing can put their sons into it......something that made me chuckle as I typed it.

 

[ASCPFC]

It will be their own decisions when they are old enough to take them.

However, just like the military was portrayed positively to me as a youngster when it was a very different institution. It will be portrayed negatively by me due to what it is today.

The left wing can put their sons into it......something that made me chuckle as I typed it.

Why sign up to be canon fodder for these kunts. I wouldn't want to protect anyone other than my own today. Ukraine, Palestine I'm quite literally saying it's not my problem. Neither would help if we were attacked. They'd probably celebrate it. I would not help Europe either. How did that go? Look how entirely grateful they've been for that.

 

[HKOwen]

The idea that you have to advertise the British military and that's going to convince a meaningful number of ethnic minorities to sign up isn't going to happen. More ethnic minorities of the Islamic faith joined ISIS than the British military. It's selling lies and it has an impact.

It lowers morale amongst those that think the emphasis should be on those demographics who naturally make up the vast majority of sign ups and actually works against recruitment.

For example, I come from a military family and in the past I would be proud to have my sons follow in those well worn footsteps. But today, I wouldn't let my sons join the military because the leadership culture of the modern military is anti nationalist and in some cases anti white.....which is a ridiculously sick joke when you think about it.

Yeah, shake the tree and thus ignore human nature and outcomes isn't a good argument in my view.....Not if you actually want better results.

The US military suffered a number of attacks from within their own ranks from, with hindsight, very questionable backgrounds.

Knowing how generally useless the UK govts are at any kind of vetting, if the military were more representative of society we would be training a load of people to use weapons who have ill intentions towards the country and it's people.

Everyone should be required to do some kind of military or civic service as a requirement for having the right to vote or get benefits. Proper disability will need to be excluded . The huge numbers of fake cases will do or lose.

This will at least delay the total breakdown of the country that is looking inevitable without drastic changes in behaviour and direction of the govt.

Sad thing is this is obvious and widely written about but nothing ever gets done to stop the death spiral.

We will need a proper military even more when societal collapse happens.

 

[ASCPFC]

The US military suffered a number of attacks from within their own ranks from, with hindsight, very questionable backgrounds.

Knowing how generally useless the UK govts are at any kind of vetting, if the military were more representative of society we would be training a load of people to use weapons who have ill intentions towards the country and it's people.

Everyone should be required to do some kind of military or civic service as a requirement for having the right to vote or get benefits. Proper disability will need to be excluded . The huge numbers of fake cases will do or lose.

This will at least delay the total breakdown of the country that is looking inevitable without drastic changes in behaviour and direction of the govt.

Sad thing is this is obvious and widely written about but nothing ever gets done to stop the death spiral.

We will need a proper military even more when societal collapse happens.

I can say with some sense of surety that they're not joining the British Army.

 

[Mark B]

The US military suffered a number of attacks from within their own ranks from, with hindsight, very questionable backgrounds.

Knowing how generally useless the UK govts are at any kind of vetting, if the military were more representative of society we would be training a load of people to use weapons who have ill intentions towards the country and it's people.

Everyone should be required to do some kind of military or civic service as a requirement for having the right to vote or get benefits. Proper disability will need to be excluded . The huge numbers of fake cases will do or lose.

This will at least delay the total breakdown of the country that is looking inevitable without drastic changes in behaviour and direction of the govt.

Sad thing is this is obvious and widely written about but nothing ever gets done to stop the death spiral.

We will need a proper military even more when societal collapse happens.

Those attacks were almost exclusively done by American born servicemembers who had later become radicalized. For example, Nidal Hasan (whose death sentence seems to be near) was born in Virginia.

Is the UK like the US where 75% of young people are actually disqualified for service because of various issues (too dumb, too fat, drug use or criminal record)?

I have a theory that the reason why the UK and Canada don't revolt is that it is too easy for disgruntled people to leave for Australia or the US. Instead of becoming a revolutionary it is just simpler and safer to most overseas and slide into an existing society who aligns closer to your beliefs.

Societal collapse will be in selective countries and areas. The less developed countries will come through fine while those that believe themselves to be enlightened are going to rapidly crash as people care less about gender studies and more about what people can do as part of the society.

 

[ASCPFC]

Those attacks were almost exclusively done by American born servicemembers who had later become radicalized. For example, Nidal Hasan (whose death sentence seems to be near) was born in Virginia.

Is the UK like the US where 75% of young people are actually disqualified for service because of various issues (too dumb, too fat, drug use or criminal record)?

I have a theory that the reason why the UK and Canada don't revolt is that it is too easy for disgruntled people to leave for Australia or the US. Instead of becoming a revolutionary it is just simpler and safer to most overseas and slide into an existing society who aligns closer to your beliefs.

Societal collapse will be in selective countries and areas. The less developed countries will come through fine while those that believe themselves to be enlightened are going to rapidly crash as people care less about gender studies and more about what people can do as part of the society.

I know that in the past nearly everyone would be fit enough for the initial fitness tests - which were actually slightly harder. But I can say from what I've seen and heard that nearly everyone fails the tests - I presume they've tried to make them easier, I haven't looked into it. I can say that up until at least a couple of years ago. If things have improved I don't know.
Serving soldiers are tested a bit harsher every month - or they get put on a program with the PT. Which no one is going to enjoy.