Reform

[Living In Hope]

I am glad we agree on many things. Of which there are more you don’t mention. I would criticise anyone, whatever their background, who failed to condemn the actions of Hamas on Oct 7, let alone celebrate it. I also agree that such criticism is not Islamophobic but simple objections to an awful attack. Whataboutery rarely helps solve problems though. Better to condemn them all. That said the Muslim diaspora still contains fundamentalist elements unwilling to submit to the modern world. Whilst there are also orthodox Jewish sects who continue to follow divine law, they do so within the context of modern society. They don’t fight it. They have had centuries to adapt and accept. Each is at a different point in their journey to life within a secular society.

Reform are a fraud. Every populist party is. Describing them as just right suits some. That’s what happens with populists. They serve up things intended to be popular. Others looking at them who don’t see, let alone share, any of their “values” see them differently.

They are a bag of wind. Nothing of substance behind them and no real idea of how to approach government.

Everyone wants to eliminate illegal immigration. Most see the need for controlled legal immigration. Only Reform (and Restore, who are even worse) propose ideas they know full well are unworkable. In the expectation they will be popular!

Thanks for this.

On a slightly different note I will give my right-wing perspective on Reform. I know you will baulk at this but I would give my vote to whichever right of centre party I thought was most likely to win an election, but with certain limitations.

That is because I believe a right wing party:
- stands a far better chance of repairing our broken finances by creating the conditions for strong economic growth;
- will take a robust stand on immigration to ensure that future immigration is limited to what is in the country's interests;
- will seek to shift our society away from the victim culture towards one which rewards aspiration and hard work, where freedom of expression is properly protected, and which values British heritage and tradition.

Now for the paragraph which will make you spit out your food and assert that it's the other way around 🤣.

I am unconvinced that Reform could do this, but I would be willing to give them the chance. I don't buy his opponents' narrative about Nigel Farage - I consider him to be a capable individual with a very clear vision of how the country might recover from its malaise, not a Machiavellian opportunist as his opponents would have us believe. I would also say that if I thought that Reform was veering towards an agenda which was racist, sexist, and homophobic, I would quickly change my tune. But currently I see them taking a stand against the malign and divisive influences which are eroding the qualities which have made Britain special.

I acknowledge that I doubt Reform has enough people with the competence and wisdom to successfully improve Britain's fortunes. However, I am also absolutely sure that the current government will just represent an extension of Britain's downturn.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Only if racist dave was included.
That would be a proper sesh

No one ever gets anything sensible out of racist Dave. Even the most biased of the right wing posters here would be offended at some of his attitudes. He is avoided by all, other than the unwitting tourists who get trapped by him.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Thanks for this.

On a slightly different note I will give my right-wing perspective on Reform. I know you will baulk at this but I would give my vote to whichever right of centre party I thought was most likely to win an election, but with certain limitations.

That is because I believe a right wing party:
- stands a far better chance of repairing our broken finances by creating the conditions for strong economic growth;
- will take a robust stand on immigration to ensure that future immigration is limited to what is in the country's interests;
- will seek to shift our society away from the victim culture towards one which rewards aspiration and hard work, where freedom of expression is properly protected, and which values British heritage and tradition.

Now for the paragraph which will make you spit out your food and assert that it's the other way around 🤣.

I am unconvinced that Reform could do this, but I would be willing to give them the chance. I don't buy his opponents' narrative about Nigel Farage - I consider him to be a capable individual with a very clear vision of how the country might recover from its malaise, not a Machiavellian opportunist as his opponents would have us believe. I would also say that if I thought that Reform was veering towards an agenda which was racist, sexist, and homophobic, I would quickly change my tune. But currently I see them taking a stand against the malign and divisive influences which are eroding the qualities which have made Britain special.

I acknowledge that I doubt Reform has enough people with the competence and wisdom to successfully improve Britain's fortunes. However, I am also absolutely sure that the current government will just represent an extension of Britain's downturn.

I think you would be wasting your vote. I cannot see anything other than a coalition after the next GE, that will exclude Reform. Who leads it remains open, but I anticipate more than 2 parties involved. How long it could avoid in fighting putting sufficient strains on it to cause it to collapse is also an open question.

 

[Spindle]

I think you would be wasting your vote. I cannot see anything other than a coalition after the next GE, that will exclude Reform. Who leads it remains open, but I anticipate more than 2 parties involved. How long it could avoid in fighting putting sufficient strains on it to cause it to collapse is also an open question.

Really? You think that Labour will cosy up with the nutcases in the Greens do you?

 

[Stirlingsays]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2085430990202155247

 

[DanH]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2085430990202155247

Worth pointing out to anyone who takes these hysterical bedwetting projections at face value is that the definition of ‘White British’ that this 2063 statement is built on is that anyone with at least one parent born outside the UK is deemed to be ‘White Other’.

This means that people like Winston Churchill, Boris Johnson and even our own King of England are not ‘White British’ by this definition.

They know this is ridiculous themselves, but they hope you only read/listen to the headline/soundbites and not question the deeply flawed (or even laughable) methodology.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Worth pointing out to anyone who takes these hysterical bedwetting projections at face value is that the definition of ‘White British’ that this 2063 statement is built on is that anyone with at least one parent born outside the UK is deemed to be ‘White Other’.

This means that people like Winston Churchill, Boris Johnson and even our own King of England are not ‘White British’ by this definition.

They know this is ridiculous themselves, but they hope you only read/listen to the headline/soundbites and not question the deeply flawed (or even laughable) methodology.

Oh my god, you did the meme.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Dan just repeats leftist talking points without thinking about it, which when you consider what he's says about the right is somewhat amusing.

From Grok on the point he mistakenly makes.....No Dan, the data isn't based upon where your parents were born but what you consider to be your identity.

Official “White British” definition (what the 2063 claim actually uses)In UK census data (ONS for England and Wales, and equivalents for Scotland/Northern Ireland), “White British” (or “White: English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British”) is a self-identified ethnic group. People tick the box based on how they see their own culture, family background, identity, or appearance. It is not defined by parents’ place of birth.

en.wikipedia.org

• Census 2021 (England and Wales): ~74.4% identified this way.
• The report’s base population and ethnicity projections start from these census figures (~73% White British for the UK around the mid-2020s in the cited numbers) and project forward using cohort-component methods calibrated to ONS national population projections.
• Assumptions include differential fertility (higher for non-White groups), mortality, and the ethnic composition of future net migration (heavily non-White under recent patterns). Under those assumptions, the self-identified White British share falls to ~57% by 2050 and crosses below 50% around 2063. All-White (British + Other) is projected later (around 2079 in the same work).
  
  telegraph.co.uk

This is the standard official category. People with one or more parents born abroad who identify as White British (common among many of European or mixed White backgrounds) are counted as White British if that is what they select. The same applies to later generations.

 

[DanH]

Dan just repeats leftist talking points without thinking about it, which when you consider what he's says about the right is somewhat amusing.

From Grok on the point he mistakenly makes.

Official “White British” definition (what the 2063 claim actually uses)In UK census data (ONS for England and Wales, and equivalents for Scotland/Northern Ireland), “White British” (or “White: English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British”) is a self-identified ethnic group. People tick the box based on how they see their own culture, family background, identity, or appearance. It is not defined by parents’ place of birth.

en.wikipedia.org

• Census 2021 (England and Wales): ~74.4% identified this way.
• The report’s base population and ethnicity projections start from these census figures (~73% White British for the UK around the mid-2020s in the cited numbers) and project forward using cohort-component methods calibrated to ONS national population projections.
• Assumptions include differential fertility (higher for non-White groups), mortality, and the ethnic composition of future net migration (heavily non-White under recent patterns). Under those assumptions, the self-identified White British share falls to ~57% by 2050 and crosses below 50% around 2063. All-White (British + Other) is projected later (around 2079 in the same work).
  
  telegraph.co.uk

This is the standard official category. People with one or more parents born abroad who identify as White British (common among many of European or mixed White backgrounds) are counted as White British if that is what they select. The same applies to later generations.

Oh look, using Grok to do your thinking again. You AI sluts are so f*cking lazy.

He has built an entire report projecting that a group of people who, by definition in this report, does not include our own King will be in a minority by 2063.

If our own King is not included as White British by definition you do realise how deeply flawed and laughable your position is, don’t you?

 

[DanH]

Here’s the actual report for anyone who isn’t a lazy c*nt and can think and read for themselves rather than rely on Elon’s pervert sexbot.

https://www.heterodoxcentre.com/wp-content/uploads/3-CHSS-Goodwin.pdf

 

[Stirlingsays]

Here’s the actual report for anyone who isn’t a lazy c*nt and can think and read for themselves rather than rely on Elon’s pervert sexbot.

https://www.heterodoxcentre.com/wp-content/uploads/3-CHSS-Goodwin.pdf

Sure, that's Goodwin's report.

State what Grok said that was wrong.

Because I directly stated what you were wrong about in your post.

Perhaps if we do meet up you can call me a 'c++t' then soy boy.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Oh look, using Grok to do your thinking again. You AI sluts are so f*cking lazy.

He has built an entire report projecting that a group of people who, by definition in this report, does not include our own King will be in a minority by 2063.

If our own King is not included as White British by definition you do realise how deeply flawed and laughable your position is, don’t you?

Did you not read what Grok said?

I'll state it again, the data Goodwin used for the 2063 figure was based upon self identity as 'white british' in the 2021 census.....It was not based upon where someone was born or where their parents were born.

Are you suggesting that the King himself identified as not being 'white British'? Nevertheless your 'cut n paste' leftist talking point was fundamentally wrong on its starting premise. What you suggested was inaccurate for how the 2063 figure came about.

 

[DanH]

Sure, that's Goodwin's report.

State what Grok said that was wrong.

Because I directly stated what you were wrong about in your post.

Perhaps if we do meet up you can call me a 'c++t' then soy boy.

You’re not an all round one, just a lazy one 😘

Will respond properly later as nearly at a meeting.

 

[Stirlingsays]

You’re not an all round one, just a lazy one 😘

Will respond properly later as nearly at a meeting.

I wouldn't call you that word personally.

Control yourself lad.

 

[Spiderman]

Oh look, using Grok to do your thinking again. You AI sluts are so f*cking lazy.

He has built an entire report projecting that a group of people who, by definition in this report, does not include our own King will be in a minority by 2063.

If our own King is not included as White British by definition you do realise how deeply flawed and laughable your position is, don’t you?

Careful, Wissie quoted AI recently

 

[Spiderman]

Here’s the actual report for anyone who isn’t a lazy c*nt and can think and read for themselves rather than rely on Elon’s pervert sexbot.

https://www.heterodoxcentre.com/wp-content/uploads/3-CHSS-Goodwin.pdf

Pretty poor show Dan!

 

[Spindle]

Oh look, using Grok to do your thinking again. You AI sluts are so f*cking lazy.

He has built an entire report projecting that a group of people who, by definition in this report, does not include our own King will be in a minority by 2063.

If our own King is not included as White British by definition you do realise how deeply flawed and laughable your position is, don’t you?

It's on all the government forms you ever fill in you f***ing retard. Do you think that Johnson, as big a t*** as he is, is going to consider himself anything else? Or is Mr Patel from the local pharmacy going to not tell us he's Asian.

f*** me, you literally did the meme, or are you actually that thick.

 

[Spindle]

Sure, that's Goodwin's report.

State what Grok said that was wrong.

Because I directly stated what you were wrong about in your post.

Perhaps if we do meet up you can call me a 'c++t' then soy boy.

And he needs to admit he's never knocked one out to p*** too

 

[DanH]

It's on all the government forms you ever fill in you f***ing retard. Do you think that Johnson, as big a t*** as he is, is going to consider himself anything else? Or is Mr Patel from the local pharmacy going to not tell us he's Asian.

f*** me, you literally did the meme, or are you actually that thick.

Cor, you online right really do get angry when your views are challenged, don’t you.

This is a concise summary of why the methodology in that report is flawed, to put it mildly.

Will 'White British' really be a minority in 40 years time?

I tried to crunch the numbers and was surprised

georginasturge.substack.com

The ‘2063’ claim is utter bunkum, for many reasons, and you lot know it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Cor, you online right really do get angry when your views are challenged, don’t you.

This is a concise summary of why the methodology in that report is flawed, to put it mildly.

Will 'White British' really be a minority in 40 years time?

I tried to crunch the numbers and was surprised

georginasturge.substack.com

The ‘2063’ claim is utter bunkum, for many reasons, and you lot know it.

I read your link.

Not only does she make the irrelevant 'King' point but she doesn't disprove anything, she just casts doubts.

Did you even read it? At no point does she suggest it's 'utter bunkum' or words to that effect, she just suggests that trends won't continue because they have changed in the past.....She certainly doesn't say white replacement won't happen it's just chewing the cud and casting doubt over dates.

She can cast doubts if she wants to....She is perfectly entitled to her probable far left opinions.