Team vs Al-Ula SC

[stanzerman]

My observations on the young squad players from pre season games,

JRS seems to have regressed from his promising early days, seemingly unwilling/unable to take on players, do his trademark step over or take shots.A move away would probably be for the best

Esse does not appear to be ready for the rigours of the Premier League at the moment.
A good loan move would seem appropriate to see if he can demonstrate his potential

Ozoh looks strong and athletic and competes well. However, he seems to lack the first touch and awareness to play in a midfield role in the Premier League , particularly if we persist with a 2 man central midfield. I think he could have a career at Championship level.

Franca works hard, presses well and is stronger than he perhaps looks.
I’ve been surprised by his lack of technique and erratic finishing though.
If Esse and JRS depart it may be worth persisting with him as a squad option to see if can develop.

Drakes Thomas looks very promising and I would like to see him get more minutes.
He’s comfortable in possession and doesn’t look phased playing in more senior company.

Feel free to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about and that they are all great.
We all want our youngsters to succeed, but I’m trying to make a dispassionate analysis.

Unfortunately JRS is a victim of the modern game where players are told not to take players on but to pass the ball. Likewise the message seems to be to only shoot if there is nobody to pass to. You may remember the Esse incident where he was substituted and disciplined for trying to take on players and losing the ball.

 

[park the bus]

I'm surprised the club has held onto JRS - yes he had a trick or two but most of the time he runs himself into a cul-de-sac or goes missing. As others have mentioned the club should have taken Southampton's bid and run. Franca should think about Rugby the amount of shots that head skyward he has attempted.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Unfortunately JRS is a victim of the modern game where players are told not to take players on but to pass the ball. Likewise the message seems to be to only shoot if there is nobody to pass to. You may remember the Esse incident where he was substituted and disciplined for trying to take on players and losing the ball.

It didn’t help that he’s clearly not up to top flight football, Glasner obviously didn’t rate him and he wouldn’t have hiked Olise, Eze or Sarr off for the same reason

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Beer and food may be our common ground . Although my yeast intake has dropped since I found Guinness zero 👍

As we’ve only got the village of Newington inbetween our towns of residence , we may well have stood in the same McDonald’s queue at some stage 🤣

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I think at least initially he's going to persist with Glasner's system, which to me makes sense so as not to disrupt a system the players have been playing for a few seasons.
Continuity could be important in trying to avoid the De Boer fiasco when he threw everything up in the air and tried to implement a system that the players were not suitable to implement.
I think how Sage gets on will depend on the resources he has at his disposal.
I think he could struggle if players like Wharton, Mateta and Munoz or a combination thereof depart.
I think the defence is likely to be damaged in any event with the departure of Guehi and Lacroix.
I'm not convinced by our transfer dealings in recent months and feel the quality of the players has been downgraded.
I do feel the early weeks could be challenging ( e.g Everton, Man City) and with the hangover of players returning late from the World Cup and the bedding in of any new players we do bring in.

For me I think it will challenging for Sage, but in fairness it would be for other managers too.
What is unknown is his temperament in terms of how he reacts to setbacks and pressure.
Perhaps the club recognise that it's a transition phase, will be patient, and won't be too trigger happy as long as it looks like we're not in danger of going down.
What do you think?

I posted yesterday that, based on the preseason games, Sage seems likely to stick with 343 and felt, like you, that it was sensible for him to do so.

My reservation is that the 343 system, at least as practiced by Palace, involves five defenders and two holding midfielders. That places a significant burden on the front three to carry the whole of the attacking threat. All teams rely on their forwards to attack of course, but we have one less attacker and one more defender than a team playing a 4231 system. We also rely on two full backs for width, and they can only get forward if we are on top. To be on top we need the forwards to carry threat regularly, often by themselves initially. If we are going to play with narrow no10s they they need to be able to get on the ball in tight spaces, keep it, dribble, play dangerous passes and shoot. In other words, they need all round quality.

In contrast, a limited player who has a couple of good strengths such as pace, crossing, or an eye for goal, can perhaps do better on the wing in a different system. It doesn't matter so much if they can't see a pass, or have hit and miss control. A lot of wingers are like that. It doesn't matter if you don't have much awareness of what is around you, the touchline orients you and simplifies your task. You don't need outstanding quality all the time, you can offset it by staying wide and running loads. Most of the time, if you get it slightly wrong then the opposing full back will just tackle you and put the ball out of play for a throw in. The attack doesn't die. Give it away in the no10 spot, on the other hand, and the opponent usually breaks away.

Johnson absolutely cannot play as a no10. Sarr sort of can but he tends to play more like a second striker. Nketiah can't play there. Pino showed flashes and seems able to find space inside, but lost the ball so very often that he did more harm than good. None of them seem suited to playing no10.

It doesn't matter who plays upfront out of Mateta, Larsen, or Nketiah if we can't create chances, and we won't create chances if we depend on average attacking players displaying a type and level of all round quality that they just don't have.

For me, as much as continuity makes sense, the 343 system that was perfect for Eze and Olise is poorly suited to our current squad.

 

[doombear]

It didn’t help that he’s clearly not up to top flight football, Glasner obviously didn’t rate him and he wouldn’t have hiked Olise, Eze or Sarr off for the same reason

It also didn't help that losing the ball in that game led to Liverpool's late equalizer.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

It also didn't help that losing the ball in that game led to Liverpool's late equalizer.

It happens, but he still wouldn’t have taken a senior and/or better player off for it. It’s easy for a manager to treat a player he knows he’s not going to need or rely on in the future like that

 

[Ex Dubai Eagle]

It happens, but he still wouldn’t have taken a senior and/or better player off for it. It’s easy for a manager to treat a player he knows he’s not going to need or rely on in the future like that

Although I haven't seen anything substantial from either Esse or JRS in the friendlies (so far) to indicate that OG assessment of them was wrong.

 

[PatrickA]

I posted yesterday that, based on the preseason games, Sage seems likely to stick with 343 and felt, like you, that it was sensible for him to do so.

My reservation is that the 343 system, at least as practiced by Palace, involves five defenders and two holding midfielders. That places a significant burden on the front three to carry the whole of the attacking threat. All teams rely on their forwards to attack of course, but we have one less attacker and one more defender than a team playing a 4231 system. We also rely on two full backs for width, and they can only get forward if we are on top. To be on top we need the forwards to carry threat regularly, often by themselves initially. If we are going to play with narrow no10s they they need to be able to get on the ball in tight spaces, keep it, dribble, play dangerous passes and shoot. In other words, they need all round quality.

In contrast, a limited player who has a couple of good strengths such as pace, crossing, or an eye for goal, can perhaps do better on the wing in a different system. It doesn't matter so much if they can't see a pass, or have hit and miss control. A lot of wingers are like that. It doesn't matter if you don't have much awareness of what is around you, the touchline orients you and simplifies your task. You don't need outstanding quality all the time, you can offset it by staying wide and running loads. Most of the time, if you get it slightly wrong then the opposing full back will just tackle you and put the ball out of play for a throw in. The attack doesn't die. Give it away in the no10 spot, on the other hand, and the opponent usually breaks away.

Johnson absolutely cannot play as a no10. Sarr sort of can but he tends to play more like a second striker. Nketiah can't play there. Pino showed flashes and seems able to find space inside, but lost the ball so very often that he did more harm than good. None of them seem suited to playing no10.

It doesn't matter who plays upfront out of Mateta, Larsen, or Nketiah if we can't create chances, and we won't create chances if we depend on average attacking players displaying a type and level of all round quality that they just don't have.

For me, as much as continuity makes sense, the 343 system that was perfect for Eze and Olise is poorly suited to our current squad.

I agree with much of this, and the suitability of the players to suit the system in the advanced positions.
Maybe Sage will be less rigid in his approach to the number 10 positions to allow them to show what they can do.
For example Pino could play more in an attacking midfield role with Sarr playing more of a support striker role ( which as you point out he can do).

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

I think at least initially he's going to persist with Glasner's system, which to me makes sense so as not to disrupt a system the players have been playing for a few seasons.
Continuity could be important in trying to avoid the De Boer fiasco when he threw everything up in the air and tried to implement a system that the players were not suitable to implement.
I think how Sage gets on will depend on the resources he has at his disposal.
I think he could struggle if players like Wharton, Mateta and Munoz or a combination thereof depart.
I think the defence is likely to be damaged in any event with the departure of Guehi and Lacroix.
I'm not convinced by our transfer dealings in recent months and feel the quality of the players has been downgraded.
I do feel the early weeks could be challenging ( e.g Everton, Man City) and with the hangover of players returning late from the World Cup and the bedding in of any new players we do bring in.

For me I think it will challenging for Sage, but in fairness it would be for other managers too.
What is unknown is his temperament in terms of how he reacts to setbacks and pressure.
Perhaps the club recognise that it's a transition phase, will be patient, and won't be too trigger happy as long as it looks like we're not in danger of going down.
What do you think?

I think i haven't seen enough to judge really, but i hope he is his own man, plays the way he wants, the 343 as we know struggles with team that defend deep, i hope during the match if we are struggling to break down a team we should beat that he will switch in game, not continue with tactics that aren't working, obviously i hope he is the one we hope he will be, every player that comes in is a player he wants, i feel a bit sorry for Mitchell, probably our best defender, if his size stops him from being in the 3 at the back, and we stay with the system, i see no place for him, we need to have a left footed Muñoz, even a Dwight McNeill type player, so we can attack down both flanks, i think Larsen will come good, if Muñoz goes i would try Pino in his role, Johnson is a weird one, just looks hopeless, i think Mateta will go, whether Nktieh or Sarr can be the back up CF, don't know, i look forward to the normal 40 points on the board and a decent showing in the Europa League.

 

[PatrickA]

I think i haven't seen enough to judge really, but i hope he is his own man, plays the way he wants, the 343 as we know struggles with team that defend deep, i hope during the match if we are struggling to break down a team we should beat that he will switch in game, not continue with tactics that aren't working, obviously i hope he is the one we hope he will be, every player that comes in is a player he wants, i feel a bit sorry for Mitchell, probably our best defender, if his size stops him from being in the 3 at the back, and we stay with the system, i see no place for him, we need to have a left footed Muñoz, even a Dwight McNeill type player, so we can attack down both flanks, i think Larsen will come good, if Muñoz goes i would try Pino in his role, Johnson is a weird one, just looks hopeless, i think Mateta will go, whether Nktieh or Sarr can be the back up CF, don't know, i look forward to the normal 40 points on the board and a decent showing in the Europa League.

No two managers are exactly the same and it will be interesting to compare and contrast the approach of Sage to Glasner when countering deep defence.
I too would like to see better balace in our attacking threat with a left footed option who could whip the ball in early with pace and accuracy.

 

[cryrst]

As we’ve only got the village of Newington inbetween our towns of residence , we may well have stood in the same McDonald’s queue at some stage 🤣

Especially when the quad Big Mac meal was available 😛🤣😳

 

[Save Dwindlehurst]

I think i haven't seen enough to judge really, but i hope he is his own man, plays the way he wants, the 343 as we know struggles with team that defend deep, i hope during the match if we are struggling to break down a team we should beat that he will switch in game, not continue with tactics that aren't working, obviously i hope he is the one we hope he will be, every player that comes in is a player he wants, i feel a bit sorry for Mitchell, probably our best defender, if his size stops him from being in the 3 at the back, and we stay with the system, i see no place for him, we need to have a left footed Muñoz, even a Dwight McNeill type player, so we can attack down both flanks, i think Larsen will come good, if Muñoz goes i would try Pino in his role, Johnson is a weird one, just looks hopeless, i think Mateta will go, whether Nktieh or Sarr can be the back up CF, don't know, i look forward to the normal 40 points on the board and a decent showing in the Europa League.

‘A Dwight McNeill type player’ ? Do you mean someone who is useless in the Brennan Johnson mould? Please read what the Everton fans thought of him when we were interested last year. They detested him to a man. I’m afraid I’d trust Hobbs over you Lanzo….As for Pino playing as a wing back are you serious? And Sarr at centre forward?
Ridiculous rubbish….

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

‘A Dwight McNeill type player’ ? Do you mean someone who is useless in the Brennan Johnson mould? Please read what the Everton fans thought of him when we were interested last year. They detested him to a man. I’m afraid I’d trust Hobbs over you Lanzo….As for Pino playing as a wing back are you serious? And Sarr at centre forward?
Ridiculous rubbish….

You obviously have the footballing knowledge of a peanut, sorry for all peanuts reading, and the ability to compose a sentence as a sea slug, never mind, perhaps when you leave school you will learn more, cheerio 🤣

 

[mtp1958]

‘A Dwight McNeill type player’ ? Do you mean someone who is useless in the Brennan Johnson mould? Please read what the Everton fans thought of him when we were interested last year. They detested him to a man. I’m afraid I’d trust Hobbs over you Lanzo….As for Pino playing as a wing back are you serious? And Sarr at centre forward?
Ridiculous rubbish….

Sorry false statement , I live not to far from Liverpool so I get to speak to he'll of alot of Everton fans , thats not what they think , he is a hot and cold player when he is good he is good , sounds very much like young Vince back in the 70s 80s , lets face it Eze very often went to sleep in games , so not All Everton fans think he is useless , fans sites over facts

 

[PatrickA]

Set pieces and accurate deliveries are a really important part of the game .
It's an area we really are deficient, particularly since Eze and Olise have left.
Whether people rate McNeil or not, nobody can surely claim he is not good at deliveries and set pieces.
It's why I was disappointed that he didn't join in January because he did offer a different skillset to our other options ( to use Glasner's quaint term a 'different profile to the others').
In simple terms the better the delivery the better the chance of scoring a goal.

I hope we are looking for a similar 'profile' of a player to McNeil with that particular ship having sailed.

 

[Save Dwindlehurst]

Sorry false statement , I live not to far from Liverpool so I get to speak to he'll of alot of Everton fans , thats not what they think , he is a hot and cold player when he is good he is good , sounds very much like young Vince back in the 70s 80s , lets face it Eze very often went to sleep in games , so not All Everton fans think he is useless , fans sites over facts

Dozens of their fans slating him on their Grand Old Team forum. Some offering to drive him to London. Maybe they’re all wrong?

 

[mtp1958]

Dozens of their fans slating him on their Grand Old Team forum. Some offering to drive him to London. Maybe they’re all wrong?

Dozens not thousands then small market to look at , same was said about Mateta before he started scoring , on here ,

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Dozens of their fans slating him on their Grand Old Team forum. Some offering to drive him to London. Maybe they’re all wrong?

Buffoon is a good word, not for you obviously.

 

[Lombardinho]

Buffoon is a good word, not for you obviously.

Great keeper.
Retired.