More covid

[Stirlingsays]

I have a few times , it doesn't matter because I like you Lol.

My opinion as a "covid denier" comes about because I have seen no evidence that covid 19 was a new disease for which we had to take unprecedented actions against.

To explain the whole geo political reasons for the cult/wef to make up something like this is not worth explaining. Particularly because I believe you would probably know already and have even discussed it before. I've been speaking with you since 2021 about covid.

So I will stick to the science as I know it.

Several people in wuhan who were said to be suffering from a new disease (how they knew this as it's practically the same as the flu I dunno) had the fluid drained from their lungs.

From the fluid they said that each of the patients had a similar virus. Trouble is how did they know this. There are two ways of finding out if we have a new disease. The strongest one is the Koch postulates.

The virus must first be isolated. Its also debatable whether these are actual viruses or actual immune system agents; i cant remember name at the moment.
.It's a bit like blaming the fireman at the scene of a fire, if that makes sense.

once we have found the virus it must then be implanted in a healthy specimen.

If enough people become ill, then it reaches the requirements of the Koch postulates. There are 4 of them, so I forgot one.

The above was certainly not done.

Then we had a pcr test which is an Amplification tool for small fragments of particles in the body , dna I believe in particular.

This pcr tool was not a process for finding infectious diseases. The inventor Kacy Mullis said so himself. He conveniently died in September 2019.

So far we have a "virus that has not been isolated, I'm not sure if any virus ever has.

Then we have a machine that is not a virus testing machine, testing for a virus that hasn't been isolated.

worse than that the pcr test being an Amplification machine that is able to find anything (according to its inventor) if the amplification level is turned up to enough cycles. This is why we had so many false positives. Even Falcui admitted to this.

Also the pcr test only needed to find a fragment of said material for a positive covid test. This has been likened to finding a horse tail and saying you've found the horse.

So all of this coupled with the huge rewards for those gained by a new pandemic, is why I believe it was rebranded flu.

The pcr test also enabled the government's of the world to show how stretched their hospitals were. By constantly testing people and then send them home when they were healthy because of the over amplification of the "test".

Interestingly I think New Zealand had little positive tests because they used a low amplification.

I don't care how mad I sound right now to some.

That's fascinating.

If you turn out to be correct you will have made fools out of most of us.

We need investigations and I think the medical data will eventually mean they will happen.

 

[Mattconrov]

The problem is that your position comes across as very black and white, with very little room for nuance.

Earlier, I pointed out that I’d had Covid and suffered long-term effects from it. You replied by saying, “I bet you’ve had the vaccine.” Yes, I did. But I first caught Covid in January 2021, before I was vaccinated. My first vaccine wasn’t until May 2021. I wasn’t eligible for an early vaccine because I wasn’t considered vulnerable. Up until then I’d been relatively healthy, with no asthma or underlying conditions, yet Covid still had a significant and lasting impact on me.

I also mentioned that Covid wasn’t the first pandemic in history. We’ve had the Black Death, the Great Plague of London, cholera, Spanish flu, Asian flu, SARS, Ebola and many others. The difference with Covid was that it happened in a genuinely globalised world. Governments weren’t just reacting to the virus, they were reacting to what every other government was doing as well. If one country stayed completely open while everyone else shut down, that created its own set of problems.

Do I believe everything governments tell us? No. Do I think governments are capable of corruption and poor decision-making? Absolutely. My father was a police officer in the 1970s, and he told me enough over the years to make me question authority rather than blindly trust it.

But the reality is that, at the start, nobody truly knew what they were dealing with. Decisions had to be made with incomplete information, and some of those decisions were right while others were wrong.

You’ve also got to account for human behaviour. Some people refused any restriction on their liberties, regardless of the consequences. Others believed we should have locked down to the absolute nth degree. I don’t think either extreme was the right answer.

You’ve done your research and reached your conclusions. I’ve reached mine from a combination of research and lived experience. I walked through a Covid ward and saw a 26-year-old woman fighting for her life. I saw what that disease was doing to real people, and not all vulnerable. I’ve also spent years seeing the economic damage it caused through my work.

You’re entitled to your opinion, and I doubt either of us is going to change the other’s mind. That’s absolutely fine.

What I object to is dismissing other people’s experiences because they don’t fit your narrative. This isn’t a competition over who’s “right”. It’s a complicated subject, and reasonable people can reach different conclusions from the same evidence.

It doesn’t have to be a black-and-white argument. Sometimes the truth sits somewhere in the many shades of grey between the two.

I believe this is black and white situation.

The shades of grey come from people who had to make difficult situations without knowing they were being scammed. These included of politicians and "health experts" following the same line.

You've used the emotion of walking through hospital wards against me like I don't care about people suffering. That's just not true.

Your experience of having "covid is not based on science and is anecdotal. Yes many anecdotal stories are interesting, but it's not scientific. You were ill, the debate if you remember was is covid a new disease. I have provided quite a bit of evidence why it isn't. You have provided emotional responses.

I'm trying to point out in some depth why I believe this was rebranded flu.

By the way, I asked if you've had the covid jab. Not , I bet you've had the covid jab. That's a big difference. Yes I thought you'd probably have had it though, a lot did

All the best anyway.

 

[Mattconrov]

That's fascinating.

If you turn out to be correct you will have made fools out of most of us.

We need investigations and I think the medical data will eventually mean they will happen.

Mate I'm a thick sod. Maybe that's why I saw through it. Many academic people follow the official line, as that's how they achieved so much, by copying and repeating.

I think you do get it.

Like I said in a previous post it is black and white when dealing with the actual architects of this scam. The grey area's were from uniformed politicians and boot lickers who served their masters ignorantly and without question.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

I believe this is black and white situation.

The shades of grey come from people who had to make difficult situations without knowing they were being scammed. These included of politicians and "health experts" following the same line.

You've used the emotion of walking through hospital wards against me like I don't care about people suffering. That's just not true.

Your experience of having "covid is not based on science and is anecdotal. Yes many anecdotal stories are interesting, but it's not scientific.

I'm trying to point out in some depth why I believe this was rebranded flu.

By the way, I asked if you've had the covid jab. Not , I bet you've had the covid jab. That's a big difference. Yes I thought you'd probably have had it though, a lot did

All the best anyway.

No, you’re absolutely right. What could possibly be relevant about speaking to somebody at eight o’clock on a Friday evening and then being told at four o’clock on Saturday morning that they were being transferred to a respiratory ward? Clearly, there’s nothing worth examining there at all and it’s “just the flu”

And yes, I have done my research. I have read the studies, reviewed the evidence and looked into what happened, because I’m interested in understanding what killed my dad.

I appreciate that, in your eyes, I’m presumably just some blinded sheep tugging at people’s heartstrings who couldn’t possibly understand the subject as well as you do. Apparently, anyone who reaches a different conclusion must simply be thick, frightened or incapable of interpreting evidence.

For what it’s worth, I’m genuinely glad your family didn’t suffer from Covid in the way mine did.

I don’t support all the hand-wringing that came afterwards. I don’t agree with every criticism aimed at the Government, and I certainly don’t believe every restriction or decision was justified. I didn’t think it was fair when Boris got attacked for the cake in Downing Street. I personally can’t stand Keir Starmer, but when he was attacked for drinking a beer and eating a takeaway with people he had already spent the entire day working alongside, I thought the whole thing was horseshit.

So this isn’t about blindly defending the Government, lockdowns or politicians. It’s about acknowledging what actually happened.

You’ve dismissed everything I’ve described as anecdootal and unscientific. But I also have medical evidence and documented diagnoses to support what I’m saying. In the space of three weeks, I lost three people to Covid, all of whom had previously been relatively healthy and all of whom had experienced flu during their lives without dying from it.

I also developed Covid pneumonia myself. I was 40 years old at the time. I had previously had flu, and the two illnesses were not the same. Are we really supposed to believe that this entirely different illness simply appeared from nowhere, affected several people around me in the same short period, near hospitalised me and killed three others, but that none of it is relevant because it doesn’t fit your preferred conclusion?

Personal experience alone does not settle every scientific argument. I understand that. But neither can you simply erase clinical diagnoses, hospital admissions and deaths because they make your argument less convenient.

You are entitled to your interpretation of the evidence.

Please take a step back and consider how you’re coming across, because at the moment you aren’t debating the evidence. You’re simply declaring that anyone whose experience contradicts your position must be wrong.

 

[grumpymort]

So is your position that Covid wasn't something that escaped from the lab in Wuhan?

What was it in your view?....sorry if you have said before.

I have no evidence only my opinion.

Covid was released on purpose not from the Chinese but someone from the West.

I remember Trump coming out with he had evidence that the Chinese leaked it and he would show the evidence something he never did I wonder if that is because he ended up seeing it was either his own people that did it or people above him who told him to shut it down.

Many moan about Borris but do not understand he is an uneducated man when it comes to a lot of things which is why you have advisors etc and those people should be the ones people go after for the lies (I called them out at the time when they was coming out with science claims yet when I read through the so called studies they showed nothing which was claimed only there own made up epidemiology models which was 99% of what they worked off those are not valid science)

I even went through all the "vaccine" claims a took those apart (I was from the start telling people Vitamin D and from to sort out lifestyle/diet as well)

The govt own stats was under 20 thousand died without any known underlying health conditions from covid yet we kept being told it was 150-200 thousand in this countries complete lies (99% of people who died had health issues already with most of them vulnerable state flu would have taken them out)

The worst thing was there was clear evidence it does not affect children yet they pushed to have children vaccinated.

A lot of people are unhealthy they just don't know it and this virus showed it. (the virus is real people who claim otherwise are crackpots and most of them are same people that believe the Earth is flat)

 

[Mattconrov]

No, you’re absolutely right. What could possibly be relevant about speaking to somebody at eight o’clock on a Friday evening and then being told at four o’clock on Saturday morning that they were being transferred to a respiratory ward? Clearly, there’s nothing worth examining there at all and it’s “just the flu”

And yes, I have done my research. I have read the studies, reviewed the evidence and looked into what happened, because I’m interested in understanding what killed my dad.

I appreciate that, in your eyes, I’m presumably just some blinded sheep tugging at people’s heartstrings who couldn’t possibly understand the subject as well as you do. Apparently, anyone who reaches a different conclusion must simply be thick, frightened or incapable of interpreting evidence.

For what it’s worth, I’m genuinely glad your family didn’t suffer from Covid in the way mine did.

I don’t support all the hand-wringing that came afterwards. I don’t agree with every criticism aimed at the Government, and I certainly don’t believe every restriction or decision was justified. I didn’t think it was fair when Boris got attacked for the cake in Downing Street. I personally can’t stand Keir Starmer, but when he was attacked for drinking a beer and eating a takeaway with people he had already spent the entire day working alongside, I thought the whole thing was horseshit.

So this isn’t about blindly defending the Government, lockdowns or politicians. It’s about acknowledging what actually happened.

You’ve dismissed everything I’ve described as anecdootal and unscientific. But I also have medical evidence and documented diagnoses to support what I’m saying. In the space of three weeks, I lost three people to Covid, all of whom had previously been relatively healthy and all of whom had experienced flu during their lives without dying from it.

I also developed Covid pneumonia myself. I was 40 years old at the time. I had previously had flu, and the two illnesses were not the same. Are we really supposed to believe that this entirely different illness simply appeared from nowhere, affected several people around me in the same short period, near hospitalised me and killed three others, but that none of it is relevant because it doesn’t fit your preferred conclusion?

Personal experience alone does not settle every scientific argument. I understand that. But neither can you simply erase clinical diagnoses, hospital admissions and deaths because they make your argument less convenient.

You are entitled to your interpretation of the evidence.

Please take a step back and consider how you’re coming across, because at the moment you aren’t debating the evidence. You’re simply declaring that anyone whose experience contradicts your position must be wrong.

I'm fine, just the way I am mate. Again you miss represent what I've said by saying its "just the flu". Firstly I don't believe I've said that. Secondly It would not have been in a context of someone's relation dying.

You can clear off pal. Off you go. One thing I can't abide is dishonesty.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

I'm fine, just the way I am mate. Again you miss represent what I've said by saying its "just the flu". Firstly I don't believe I've said that. Secondly It would not have been in a context of someone's relation dying.

You can clear off pal. Off you go. One thing I can't abide is dishonesty.

So open debate and you “can clear off” as you “can’t abide dishonesty”

Fits quite well and i think I will. I can’t abide c****.

 

[Mattconrov]

I have no evidence only my opinion.

Covid was released on purpose not from the Chinese but someone from the West.

I remember Trump coming out with he had evidence that the Chinese leaked it and he would show the evidence something he never did I wonder if that is because he ended up seeing it was either his own people that did it or people above him who told him to shut it down.

Many moan about Borris but do not understand he is an uneducated man when it comes to a lot of things which is why you have advisors etc and those people should be the ones people go after for the lies (I called them out at the time when they was coming out with science claims yet when I read through the so called studies they showed nothing which was claimed only there own made up epidemiology models which was 99% of what they worked off those are not valid science)

I even went through all the "vaccine" claims a took those apart (I was from the start telling people Vitamin D and from to sort out lifestyle/diet as well)

The govt own stats was under 20 thousand died without any known underlying health conditions from covid yet we kept being told it was 150-200 thousand in this countries complete lies (99% of people who died had health issues already with most of them vulnerable state flu would have taken them out)

The worst thing was there was clear evidence it does not affect children yet they pushed to have children vaccinated.

A lot of people are unhealthy they just don't know it and this virus showed it. (the virus is real people who claim otherwise are crackpots and most of them are same people that believe the Earth is flat)

Yep, the proof was there for all to see at the start; but fear stopped many from seeing it.

The lies and propaganda perpetuating the fear

 

[Mattconrov]

So open debate and you “can clear off” as you “can’t abide dishonesty”

Fits quite well and i think I will. I can’t abide c****.

Hard man on a forum. Lol

You've quite clearly mispresented me a number of times. What's the controversy. Lol

 

[Stirlingsays]

Covid affected all of us.....We were lucky not to lose anyone but the lockdowns really got to my partner, it surprised me just how upset she was. I just thought....Well, those that read my stuff on here know what I thought and think.

Obviously the scale for those that lost family is completely different: It doesn't compare.

I have my views and I've enjoyed reading those on both sides and inbetween on the issue.

Let's not lose our rag about it......It's all out of our hands.

 

[Mattconrov]

Covid affected all of us.....We were lucky not to lose anyone but the lockdowns really got to my partner, it surprised me just how upset she was. I just thought....Well, those that read my stuff on here know what I thought and think.

Obviously the scale for those that lost family is completely different: It doesn't compare.

I have my views and I've enjoyed reading those on both sides and inbetween on the issue.

Let's not lose our rag about it......It's all out of our hands.

Fair point. But I never called anyone a cund like nut boy did. lol.

The point about losing loved ones is a very important one.

When I take the stance of saying covid didn't exist; I'm not saying that people didn't die of something. But it always gets misrepresented in that way.

I've had this many times in real life and of course you tread carefully. But people have got very aggressive with me for having this opinion.

An old mate of mine said to me. You can't win debates with facts anymore. You just have to win them with emotion.

 

[DanH]

Fair point. But I never called anyone a cund like nut boy did. lol.

The point about losing loved ones is a very important one.

When I take the stance of saying covid didn't exist; I'm not saying that people didn't die of something. But it always gets misrepresented in that way.

I've had this many times in real life and of course you tread carefully. But people have got very aggressive with me for having this opinion.

An old mate of mine said to me. You can't win debates with facts anymore. You just have to win them with emotion.

You haven’t posted any facts. Just crackpot nonsense.

 

[Mattconrov]

You haven’t posted any facts. Just crackpot nonsense.

ok.

 

[HKOwen]

Fair point. But I never called anyone a cund like nut boy did. lol.

The point about losing loved ones is a very important one.

When I take the stance of saying covid didn't exist; I'm not saying that people didn't die of something. But it always gets misrepresented in that way.

I've had this many times in real life and of course you tread carefully. But people have got very aggressive with me for having this opinion.

An old mate of mine said to me. You can't win debates with facts anymore. You just have to win them with emotion.

I contracted COVID, or a least the flu like disease that was called COVID. I had the vaccines which I knew would not prevent infection but in my case, I believe mitigated the symptoms.

The mishandling by governments everywhere is not surprising, they screw up on well understood issues, never mind a global health crisis none were prepared for or understood how to handle.

I just hope lessons were learned for the next one.

 

[Mattconrov]

I contracted COVID, or a least the flu like disease that was called COVID. I had the vaccines which I knew would not prevent infection but in my case, I believe mitigated the symptoms.

The mishandling by governments everywhere is not surprising, they screw up on well understood issues, never mind a global health crisis none were prepared for or understood how to handle.

I just hope lessons were learned for the next one.

They won't learn unfortunately. They just follow the script given to them.

I appreciate your wording from the first paragraph. Lol

 

[eaglesdare]

Don't forget!

 

[McAhuna]

Don't forget!

Psyop to test the extent of the population's gullibility and conformity.

The fact that there are still people who saw this, but simultaneously claim the hospitals were overflowing with casualties, tells us all everything we need to know.

 

[Mattconrov]

Psyop to test the extent of the population's gullibility and conformity.

The fact that there are still people who saw this, but simultaneously claim the hospitals were overflowing with casualties, tells us all everything we need to know.

You probably know this guy already. Mass formation psychosis. It strongly relates to what you've written.

To be clear as you know yourself. When I have said covid wasn't real; I'm saying that I believe it wasn't a novel/new disease .

I am actually sorry if it offends some people. However I am 100 percent black black and white on this particular point of the whole pandemic.

I am definitely not saying that people didn't get ill. I am saying that these poor people were used as pawns in a game to create the outcome the globalists wanted.

You know all of this already. However I want to be clear for others who think I am a t*** over it. Which is fine to be called of course. I already know I am.

 

[McAhuna]

You haven’t posted any facts. Just crackpot nonsense.

Lol. We have presented plenty of evidence. If you don't like our evidence, just tune into Fauci's performance at the US Senate committee hearing that is taking place this very week. It's all laid bare for you.

In return, all you have offered is half-remembered, half-baked, state propaganda press releases from 5 years ago.

 

[McAhuna]

You probably know this guy already. Mass formation psychosis. It strongly relates to what you've written.

To be clear as you know yourself. When I have said covid wasn't real; I'm saying that I believe it wasn't a novel/new disease .

I am actually sorry if it offends some people. However I am 100 percent black black and white on this particular point of the whole pandemic.

I am definitely not saying that people didn't get ill. I am saying that these poor people were used as pawns in a game to create the outcome the globalists wanted.

You know all of this already. However I want to be clear for others who think I am a t*** over it. Which is fine to be called of course. I already know I am.

You can't really have a sensible, rational conversation on this subject without risking offending people. People don't have to take part in discussion at the end of the day, if new facts and different opinions are so distressing for them.

As we all know all too well, 'offence' can be weaponised as a form of censorship - most obviously in the trans and race arenas, but also with Covid.

I recall a massive kick-off in a Brighton pub after the demo I previously mentioned. One of their locals started hysterically ranting on that his Dad had died of Covid. Me and several others ended up being thrown out and barred as a result of his protestations (Did us a favour!). Anyway, some of the other locals caught up with us outside. I think we were initially expecting all hell to break-out, but they actually just followed us to apologise and told us the guy claiming his Dad died of Covid was full of s*** - his father had actually passed on from a heart attack.

We all know that someone could get hit by a bus and have 'covid' put on their death certificate. A nurse friend told us she was actually offered incentives to do just that.

People can say what they want, but we're also all entitled to believe what we want, without having the guilt card weaponised against us or used to derail discussion.