Reform

[HKOwen]

Nigel Farage is a privately educated ex-stock trader who banks at Couts. Sounds like an establishment Tory to me. Just because he was the poster boy for Brexit doesn't mean he's anti-establishment. Out of interest who do you think is establishment if it isn't Nigel?

IMO he's a shameless grifter who was barely ever seen in Parliament (check out his voting and appearances record compared to say Rupert Lowe or Robert Jenrick - no fan of either but they work bloody hard). He's virtually invisible in Clacton because of his various other money making opportunities. He gets a whiff of a money making invite in America or a bit of a pro-Trumping opportunity and he's there quicker than you can say USA, again all taking greater importance that the job he was actually elected for.

It will be bloody hilarious to see him sat alone beside Count Binface in the by election.

Yes. I agree Farage is a great debater and can relate to people but really don't believe he's on the side of the GB public. His track record shows he's in it for himself.

And to put it you in another way, if someone on the Labour front bench or Kemi Badenoch had received £5m just before becoming an MP and didn't declare it and received monetary or favours in kind would you have the same view? I would regardless of the party. Angela Raynor got torn a new one over the second home tax issue, even by Nigel who potentially did exactly the same on his second (or maybe fifth) home in Clacton.

Just what level of dodginess would lead to you changing your view of Farage or at least starting to think there are questions to answer?

Highlighted in bold factually incorrect.

What has being privately educated got to do with anything?

The £5M may well turn out to be in breach of the PSC rules or it may not.

Your opinion is entirely valid, but doesn't make it factual.

IMO most of the current Labour MPs and most of the Front Bench grifters.

Our Ange being one of the worst

 

[DanH]

Highlighted in bold factually incorrect.

What has being privately educated got to do with anything?

The £5 may well turn out to be in breach of the PSC rules or it may not.

Your opinion is entirely valid, but doesn't make it factual.

IMO most of the current Labour MPs and most of the Front Bench grifters.

Our Ange being one of the worst

So you think Angela Rayner, cleared of doing any wrongdoing over a potential £40k underpayment of stamp duty ‘is one of the worst’ over Big Nige accepting a £5 million crypto ‘gift’ with no strings attached do you?

 

[DanH]

So you think Angela Rayner, cleared of doing any wrongdoing over a potential £40k underpayment of stamp duty ‘is one of the worst’ over Big Nige accepting a £5 million crypto ‘gift’ with no strings attached do you?

The bit in bold factually correct btw.

 

[HKOwen]

What's it got to do with you?

Mind your own business, you twonk.

Do you not see the irony in this post?

Let me explain, asking some one to mind their own business in a post that is not your business.

Are you now DanH's minder?

 

[HKOwen]

So you think Angela Rayner, cleared of doing any wrongdoing over a potential £40k underpayment of stamp duty ‘is one of the worst’ over Big Nige accepting a £5 million crypto ‘gift’ with no strings attached do you?

I did not mention the attempted avoidance of stamp duty.

What she did automatically results in a fine for everbody else, but not her.

The facts are, she was found to have underpaid stamp duty. Farage has been accused of something.

"Stamp duty expert Sean Randall, interviewed by The Times, expressed confusion on HMRC's decision not to fine Rayner, naming intentional and careless as two pathways that lead to a fine, citing the latter for Rayner's case. Likewise, Tax Policy Associates founder Dan Neidle did not know why HMRC came to a different verdict to Sir Laurie Magnus, saying "it is hard to see how a taxpayer, undertaking a complex transaction involving a court ordered trust, twice told to obtain specialist tax advice, can be said to have taken reasonable care by not doing so.”

Clear bias and two tier treatment

 

[DanH]

I did not mention the attempted avoidance of stamp duty.

What she did automatically results in a fine for everbody else, but not her.

The facts are, she was found to have underpaid stamp duty. Farage has been accused of something.

"Stamp duty expert Sean Randall, interviewed by The Times, expressed confusion on HMRC's decision not to fine Rayner, naming intentional and careless as two pathways that lead to a fine, citing the latter for Rayner's case. Likewise, Tax Policy Associates founder Dan Neidle did not know why HMRC came to a different verdict to Sir Laurie Magnus, saying "it is hard to see how a taxpayer, undertaking a complex transaction involving a court ordered trust, twice told to obtain specialist tax advice, can be said to have taken reasonable care by not doing so.”

Clear bias and two tier treatment

I work in tax too. I agree with Dan Neidle, she should have got some specialist advice. Twice.

Do you agree that Nigel should have the same treatment?

 

[HKOwen]

I work in tax too. I agree with Dan Neidle, she should have got some specialist advice. Twice. But she was careless. Not deliberate.

Do you agree that Nigel should have the same treatment?

Same treatment in respect of what?

Careless is not a mitigation for avoiding a fine, two tier in action.

 

[DanH]

Same treatment in respect of what?

Careless is not a mitigation for avoiding a fine, two tier in action.

It genuinely is. For any taxpayer. As long as not deliberate and first offence. Usually just suspended unless they get their house in order..

 

[HKOwen]

It genuinely is. For any taxpayer. As long as not deliberate and first offence. Usually just suspended unless they get their house in order..

The HMRC said careless is a path to a fine and then did not.

Moving on

 

[Eagle One]

So who in your mind qualifies as anti establishment?

In your mind if someone has an establishment background, then they can never actually be described as 'anti establishment' even if their policies are aggressively opposed by the actual establishment.

I'm not opposed to thinking in class identities up to a point but I think it can be overdone like everything else.

No I think this point needs pushback.

I grant you that Farage comes from the establishment, but so did Corbyn.

I think you can have an establishment background and end up opposing what the vast majority of the establishment want. It's rare but it happens.

I think saying that can't be called 'anti establishment'




Are there no Labour MPs with similar records on voting?
Who are you to decide what qualifies as an acceptable MP or how much money an MP can make outside of that actual job.

This country needs people who can make money.....Pretty much the entire Labour government haven't run a business......I think the country is served better by people who have been successful out in the real world.



Yep.....Should have happened to Burnham.



As opposed to....?



We couldn't give a monkey's what money he makes before being an MP. I don't remember anyone on the left screaming about old ginger Angela, they kept very quiet.

We want the left out.....Farage is the best chance that the left get kicked out.

You make some good points about anti establishment, but ultimately if Farage ever got in his old right wing Tory ethos of making the rich richer would come to the fore (like already lobbying the Bank of England over relaxing rules on crypto but nothing to do with the £5m of course). And that is establishment. To answer your question I think most politicians probably are establishment.

Farage has the worst records of any Parliamentary MP. At one point he didn't appear or vote between March to June. And yet during that time was frequently appearing publicly doing other things whilst pocketing his taxpayer funded MPs salary. If I didn't turn up to do my job for three months because I was making money elsewhere I'd be out of the door.

Ultimately Reform don't give a stuff about the average Joe. They are full of failed Tories like Dorries, Zahawi, Jenrick etc. They've sold a promise on immigration and have a nasty undercurrent that doesn't start and end with Farage.

Take Jenrick for example who made a decison whilst Housing Secretary that meant a rich pal didn't have to pay around £50m in levies on a big development. I guess you'd come back and say that's pro-business, but ultimately that money would have been for necessary community support structure around the development like a new school and infrastructure for emergency services, so instead has to be funded by the taxpayer, including you and I.

So would ask you the same questions. Is there any line Farage would cross, criminal or otherwise, that would mean you'd no longer support him?

And what if the £5m had been to Burnham or Badenoch in advance of them becoming an MP? Would you be wanting them out for taking perceived back handers?

You may paint the picture that it's in the interests of government and other opposition parties to get Farage because of his views and the support he has. That is a fair point but what of Farage and his Reform cronies actually taking some responsibility themselves? Farage is a bright bloke, did he not think for one second as someone trying to get into Parliament that accepting a £5m gift or taking favours from a convicted criminal will lead to questions and is just not a good look?

Farage may paint himself the victim but he just needs to stand up and own his decisions. Right now he just looks like he's flailing in every direction and trying to avoid scrutiny.

 

[cryrst]

I’ll divulge it on here if cryrst offers up his 16 digit card number, expiry date and CVC number first.

Don’t forget my bank account and PIN number. You sound like you’ve asked that a few times. Maybe your 100 employees are in India !

 

[HKOwen]

You make some good points about anti establishment, but ultimately if Farage ever got in his old right wing Tory ethos of making the rich richer would come to the fore (like already lobbying the Bank of England over relaxing rules on crypto but nothing to do with the £5m of course). And that is establishment. To answer your question I think most politicians probably are establishment.

Farage has the worst records of any Parliamentary MP. At one point he didn't appear or vote between March to June. And yet during that time was frequently appearing publicly doing other things whilst pocketing his taxpayer funded MPs salary. If I didn't turn up to do my job for three months because I was making money elsewhere I'd be out of the door.

Ultimately Reform don't give a stuff about the average Joe. They are full of failed Tories like Dorries, Zahawi, Jenrick etc. They've sold a promise on immigration and have a nasty undercurrent that doesn't start and end with Farage.

Take Jenrick for example who made a decison whilst Housing Secretary that meant a rich pal didn't have to pay around £50m in levies on a big development. I guess you'd come back and say that's pro-business, but ultimately that money would have been for necessary community support structure around the development like a new school and infrastructure for emergency services, so instead has to be funded by the taxpayer, including you and I.

So would ask you the same questions. Is there any line Farage would cross, criminal or otherwise, that would mean you'd no longer support him?

And what if the £5m had been to Burnham or Badenoch in advance of them becoming an MP? Would you be wanting them out for taking perceived back handers?

You may paint the picture that it's in the interests of government and other opposition parties to get Farage because of his views and the support he has. That is a fair point but what of Farage and his Reform cronies actually taking some responsibility themselves? Farage is a bright bloke, did he not think for one second as someone trying to get into Parliament that accepting a £5m gift or taking favours from a convicted criminal will lead to questions and is just not a good look?

Farage may paint himself the victim but he just needs to stand up and own his decisions. Right now he just looks like he's flailing in every direction and trying to avoid scrutiny.

Highlighted in bold, simply not correct or factual.

No record of attendance is kept, only voting through the lobbies.

Farage is in the bottom 8% but not the worst

Google Search

 

[Spindle]

Why do you think Reform and Restore have deliberately targeted seats in the lowest income and lowest educational constituencies historically?

What a bigoted, prejudice, ignorant and unwise thing to say.

I thought liberals were supposed to represent the opposite of this

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Not really answered the questions I put to you though. Would you care if it were £5m to Andy Burnham or Kemi Badenoch? Would you deny that Reform wouldn't make an issue out of it? Of course they would.

Is there any line that Farage would cross where you would not defend him?

If you couldn't care less about his rich mates lending him money then you should. That money would come with strings attached at some point in time.

As for your useful idiots comment, they come in all guises.

I'm sure they would. But this is more than just a political point scoring knockabout.

As far as 'strings' goes. You don't seem to understand the principle of 'least worst'

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yeah the obvious difference though is that in Makerfield there was a new MP voted in, and it was a competitive and highly contested election. In Clacton it would be voting in the same MP, with no competition, resulting in absolutely no change. (Unless Binface rides to the rescue, which would be comedy gold and the funniest way to see Farage go). Not that I care much about the cost of the by-election tbh. It's just pretty clearly not the same as Makerfield if you think about it for a few seconds.....

Oooh, here come the Farage haters out of the woodwork when they smell blood.

You talk like the alternatives are credible.

Your post is just waffle. You know exactly why Farage resigned and is standing again. Don't pretend otherwise.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

So you think Angela Rayner, cleared of doing any wrongdoing over a potential £40k underpayment of stamp duty ‘is one of the worst’ over Big Nige accepting a £5 million crypto ‘gift’ with no strings attached do you?

She was a member of the cabinet. Farage hadn't even decided to run.

Are you stupid?

 

[Eagle One]

Oooh, here come the Farage haters out of the woodwork when they smell blood.

You talk like the alternatives are credible.

Your post is just waffle. You know exactly why Farage resigned and is standing again. Don't pretend otherwise.

You still didn't answer the questions though.

And yes I may not be a regular poster on this but everyone's entitled to have a view.

Farage resigned because he thought he could let the people of Clacton judge him rather than let the Parliamentary standards committee scrutinise the issues. Well now he's in a head to head with a talking bin and when Farage is elected, as he will be, the committee process will just start again. That worked out well for him?

 

[Eagle One]

Highlighted in bold, simply not correct or factual.

No record of attendance is kept, only voting through the lobbies.

Farage is in the bottom 8% but not the worst

Google Search

Bottom 8% isn't exactly a badge of honour though is it? And actually there are records kept on speaking appearances not just voting.

And that 8% presume includes the 7 sinn fein MPs who have a policy of not appearing in Parliament meaning in reality it's probably nearer the bottom 5 or 6%?

So do you have a line that Farage would have to cross before he'd lose your support?

 

[Eagle One]

She was a member of the cabinet. Farage hadn't even decided to run.

Are you stupid?

So you completely and utterly believe that the £5m would come with no strings attached? Farage subsequently lobbied the Bank of England over crypto rules. Not even a tad suspicious to you?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You still didn't answer the questions though.

And yes I may not be a regular poster on this but everyone's entitled to have a view.

Farage resigned because he thought he could let the people of Clacton judge him rather than let the Parliamentary standards committee scrutinise the issues. Well now he's in a head to head with a talking bin and when Farage is elected, as he will be, the committee process will just start again. That worked out well for him?

I did answer your question. Don't try to get clever.

Farage is making a point. You are assuming that Farage will be found guilty in an investigation.

For me, this is all an irrelevance. It is political mud slinging by those afraid for their jobs.

I'm more interested in the state of this country because of the policies of parties who want to get Farage out of Parliament by any means.

So much for democracy.