Israel v Hamas

georgenorman said:
But all friends of Jihad and the Iranian government condemn Israel.
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Yes, but to condemn one does not mean you support the other. It's too binary and simple.

A white person protesting at Israel carpet bombing civilian areas is not supporting the creation of a world Caliphate - directly or indirectly.

Indeed, it is not hard to construct an argument that Israel's actions are actually serving to move the world a little in that very direction.

I get the enemy of my enemy point (e.g. why I was largely supportive on Bin Laden), but Israel's self-serving ethnic cleansing is not the way.
 
silvertop said:
Yes, but to condemn one does not mean you support the other. It's too binary and simple.

A white person protesting at Israel carpet bombing civilian areas is not supporting the creation of a world Caliphate - directly or indirectly.

Indeed, it is not hard to construct an argument that Israel's actions are actually serving to move the world a little in that very direction.

I get the enemy of my enemy point (e.g. why I was largely supportive on Bin Laden), but Israel's self-serving ethnic cleansing is not the way.
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You have no idea what carpet bombing is so why use the phrase
 
Published on June 23 2026, the 94-page report by the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel examined alleged Israeli violations against Palestinian children from the beginning of Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza in October 2023 to October 2025.

The commission found that Israel killed at least 20,179 Palestinian children in two years of the war, accounting for nearly 30 percent of all Palestinian deaths.

Israel had described as ‘Collateral damage’: 73 Palestinian children Israel shot in the head​


The report also documented more than 44,000 children injured and an estimated 58,000 children orphaned during the war.

It outlined a pattern of snipers and precision drone strikes targeting children, a blockade of humanitarian aid that fuelled starvation and disease as immunisation rates fell and a systematic targeting of maternity and neonatal facilities that endangered Gaza’s newborns.
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
Published on June 23 2026, the 94-page report by the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel examined alleged Israeli violations against Palestinian children from the beginning of Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza in October 2023 to October 2025.

The commission found that Israel killed at least 20,179 Palestinian children in two years of the war, accounting for nearly 30 percent of all Palestinian deaths.

Israel had described as ‘Collateral damage’: 73 Palestinian children Israel shot in the head​


The report also documented more than 44,000 children injured and an estimated 58,000 children orphaned during the war.

It outlined a pattern of snipers and precision drone strikes targeting children, a blockade of humanitarian aid that fuelled starvation and disease as immunisation rates fell and a systematic targeting of maternity and neonatal facilities that endangered Gaza’s newborns.
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Very sad that Hamas use children as body shields.
 
eaglesdare said:
It wasn't a joke. It's well documented the guerilla warfare tactics that Hamas use.
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Possibly, but are you really suggesting that any bar a tiny % of the tens of thousands killed were human shield victims. Can you imagine the logistics of always presenting children to defend any position? It is not a sustainable point.

And what of sharp shooter killings? And documented head shots?

This is targeted and deliberate killing of children with a "nits make lice" justification.

Nobody wants to be accused of supporting child murder, but you don't have to stand back very far to see just that in very clear perspective.
 
silvertop said:
Possibly, but are you really suggesting that any bar a tiny % of the tens of thousands killed were human shield victims. Can you imagine the logistics of always presenting children to defend any position? It is not a sustainable point.

And what of sharp shooter killings? And documented head shots?

This is targeted and deliberate killing of children with a "nits make lice" justification.

Nobody wants to be accused of supporting child murder, but you don't have to stand back very far to see just that in very clear perspective.
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This "independent un report" is very one sided and looks like it relies heavily on Hamas statistics. Just like our beloved BBC do.

Hamas as I said earlier has a documented strategy. This includes embedding fighters, rockets, and tunnels in civilian areas (homes, schools, hospitals) which is why civilian casualties is so high. The UN report completely ignores this context and frames it in a very one sided way.

I very much doubt that Israeli is deliberately shooting children. And blaming Israel alone excuses the terrorists using children as shields.

There is a NATO report from a few years back that goes over Hamas tactic use of human shields:

 
eaglesdare said:
This "independent un report" is very one sided and looks like it relies heavily on Hamas statistics. Just like our beloved BBC do.

Hamas as I said earlier has a documented strategy. This includes embedding fighters, rockets, and tunnels in civilian areas (homes, schools, hospitals) which is why civilian casualties is so high. The UN report completely ignores this context and frames it in a very one sided way.

I very much doubt that Israeli is deliberately shooting children. And blaming Israel alone excuses the terrorists using children as shields.

There is a NATO report from a few years back that goes over Hamas tactic use of human shields:

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The idea that this would then justify 20,000 dead children is just laughable.

If you’d like the proof of Israel targeting children, there’s tons of it out there - visit ArchiveGenocide.com and you will find almost 65,000 videos of every despicable war crime you could imagine, including the flagrant murder of thousands.

It’s harrowing stuff to watch, but it makes a complete mockery of the Israeli narratives that you’ve happily parroted for years.

You should have a look at what you’re supporting.
 
eaglesdare said:
This "independent un report" is very one sided and looks like it relies heavily on Hamas statistics. Just like our beloved BBC do.

Hamas as I said earlier has a documented strategy. This includes embedding fighters, rockets, and tunnels in civilian areas (homes, schools, hospitals) which is why civilian casualties is so high. The UN report completely ignores this context and frames it in a very one sided way.

I very much doubt that Israeli is deliberately shooting children. And blaming Israel alone excuses the terrorists using children as shields.

There is a NATO report from a few years back that goes over Hamas tactic use of human shields:

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Like I said, shielding as well as Hamas distorting data undoubtedly occurs. This is Hamas after all - terrorist ars*holes. The issue is the scale as against the number of proven dead. It is akin to blaming all road accidents on drink driving.

And you cant blame either the UN or the BBC for placing at least some reliance on Hamas data as Israel completely bar any independent scrutiny by the press, the UN, the Red Cross/Crescent etc...

Who would do that if they had nothing to hide?
 
CPFCSaturn said:
The idea that this would then justify 20,000 dead children is just laughable.

If you’d like the proof of Israel targeting children, there’s tons of it out there - visit ArchiveGenocide.com and you will find almost 65,000 videos of every despicable war crime you could imagine, including the flagrant murder of thousands.

It’s harrowing stuff to watch, but it makes a complete mockery of the Israeli narratives that you’ve happily parroted for years.

You should have a look at what you’re supporting.
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No one is "justifying" 20,000 dead children. It is a horrific tragedy if true.
The ones truly responsible are Hamas. They started the war with the Oct 7 massacre and deliberately hid behind their own civilians, firing from schools and hospitals while rejecting civilian shelters.

Raw video archives from one side don't prove Israeli targeting. They would probably show the reality created by Hamas's human shield strategy which I provided a document from NATO which covers this.

Charlie Kirk was right before his death in that Israel is loosing or have seem to have lost the PR war.

I know what I'm supporting and I support Israels right to defend itself against those who want a repeat of October 7th.
 
silvertop said:
Like I said, shielding as well as Hamas distorting data undoubtedly occurs. This is Hamas after all - terrorist ars*holes. The issue is the scale as against the number of proven dead. It is akin to blaming all road accidents on drink driving.

And you cant blame either the UN or the BBC for placing at least some reliance on Hamas data as Israel completely bar any independent scrutiny by the press, the UN, the Red Cross/Crescent etc...

Who would do that if they had nothing to hide?
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That's fair. I do agree with that.
 
eaglesdare said:
No one is "justifying" 20,000 dead children. It is a horrific tragedy if true.
The ones truly responsible are Hamas. They started the war with the Oct 7 massacre and deliberately hid behind their own civilians, firing from schools and hospitals while rejecting civilian shelters.

Raw video archives from one side don't prove Israeli targeting. They would probably show the reality created by Hamas's human shield strategy which I provided a document from NATO which covers this.

Charlie Kirk was right before his death in that Israel is loosing or have seem to have lost the PR war.

I know what I'm supporting and I support Israels right to defend itself against those who want a repeat of October 7th.
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To be clear, you are absolutely attempting to justify the 20,000 dead children. Providing a litany of weak excuses and half truths to try and make it acceptable is attempting to justify - if that is your position then at least own it.

Of course the video prove targeting - there are dozens of videos of children being shot at for nothing.

Israel have lost the PR war because anyone approaching this with even a smidge of honesty can see exactly what is happening. You can’t PR your way out of massacring tens of thousands of children, funny enough.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
To be clear, you are absolutely attempting to justify the 20,000 dead children. Providing a litany of weak excuses and half truths to try and make it acceptable is attempting to justify - if that is your position then at least own it.

Of course the video prove targeting - there are dozens of videos of children being shot at for nothing.

Israel have lost the PR war because anyone approaching this with even a smidge of honesty can see exactly what is happening. You can’t PR your way out of massacring tens of thousands of children, funny enough.
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To be clear....no I'm not justifying any child deaths unlike you, I'm not excusing the side that deliberately uses children as human shields (per NATO report I linked).
 
eaglesdare said:
Human shields explain why so many civilians and children die. It’s a Hamas documented war crime and not a justification.

I provided a nato link for this earlier.
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As you seemed to acknowledge above, ‘human shields’ doesn’t come close to explaining the scale of deaths.

And by continuing to pretend that it does, you are continuing to try and justify the massacre of children.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
As you seemed to acknowledge above, ‘human shields’ doesn’t come close to explaining the scale of deaths.

And by continuing to pretend that it does, you are continuing to try and justify the massacre of children.
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I'm not justifying deaths. The NATO report I linked details exactly how Hamas operate to inflate civilian deaths for PR.

Denying what Hamas are doing while blaming only Israel is what justifies Hamas's war crimes and endless suffering.
 
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