Main Stand redevelopment thread

[TheBigToePunt]

It can only help us!

If we are relegated, and we can't fill it, or even get more than 26000 paying punters in the door, then it hasn't helped us at all. It will be a hinderance, as we will be paying for it out of the clubs money, which could have been spent on players to get back up again.

That wouldn't be helpful.

Again, I am fully supportive of the project, and I hope we move on to the other stands afterwards. I am just pointing out that it comes with implications and risks, like anything else.

 

[rikz]

Perhaps we have evolved, but to the point of needing a 34000 seat stadium in the Championship? That is double our average attendance last time we were in that league, or any time we've been in it in modern memory.

All available evidence is clear that we only need the new stand in the top flight. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice, or beneficial otherwise, but it isn't evidently needed unless we are at the top table.

The other thing is paying for it. The owners aren't going to pay for the stand, are they? The club is, including by way of a loan of at least £125m which will need to be paid back. To do that we need income, and we would have a lot less of it one division down. In that respect money for the stand is entirely dependant on league status. It will take x years to pay for itself if sold out every week at premier league ticket prices, but a lot longer otherwise, if it can be done at all.

Yes, assets on the field was my original point. They are an insurance policy that we just didn't have in 2018. Lets hope we never need to cash in on them, at least not to cover the stand debt, but to my mind they must be the best guard against risk that a club can have.

I know a few people that wouldn't renew their season ticket if we get relegated, they're just not interested in paying to watch sport live, unless its the top level. It's completely impossible to attract new fans at the moment, so its likely when we do go back down we will be getting crowds of about 18k again, which is why having a bigger stadium now is so important. If we were getting 34k for the last 10 years, enough time for people to fall in love and for it to become part of life going to watch Palace, we would retain a certain percentage of them fans and instead of averaging 18k in the championship, we could be averaging what we get now.

 

[Linford]

If we are relegated, and we can't fill it, or even get more than 26000 paying punters in the door, then it hasn't helped us at all. It will be a hinderance, as we will be paying for it out of the clubs money, which could have been spent on players to get back up again.

That wouldn't be helpful.

Again, I am fully supportive of the project, and I hope we move on to the other stands afterwards. I am just pointing out that it comes with implications and risks, like anything else.

I meant having playing assets to back up the investment as a last resort.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I agree 100%.
I am simply struggling with the idea that there is no important relationship between our on-field position and the building of the stand. It seems to me the two are fundamentally interlinked.

I understand your concern with the risk. Judging risk is a massive part of life and this is no different.

Only Parish and co know if it's a viable risk.

 

[SnapperKain]

If we are relegated, and we can't fill it, or even get more than 26000 paying punters in the door, then it hasn't helped us at all. It will be a hinderance, as we will be paying for it out of the clubs money, which could have been spent on players to get back up again.

That wouldn't be helpful.

Again, I am fully supportive of the project, and I hope we move on to the other stands afterwards. I am just pointing out that it comes with implications and risks, like anything else.

I think not building it isn't really an option. The main stand is held together by horse glue, asbestos and good intentions and having a mostly wooden stadium in the premier league that creaks and moves when we score a goal isn't something we can have anymore.

I did the stadium tour a few years back and you can really see how the main stand is holding us back with everything from facilities for players (changing rooms, physio, etc) to the corporate entertainment on match days (and non) and just the look of it when trying to get new players and managers in, it's so cramped and narrow back there! Amazing that Neil Ruddock was able to navigate it. On that tour, and this was pre FA Cup, they said they could sell out the hospitality ten times over every matchday so we're losing that revenue already. Even something like the fan zone, the Tesco carrier bag wearing numpties down the road make reportedly £1 million per game out of their fan zone and I'm not sure a couple of cabins and a bar in our one does the same.

If we get relegated is it a problem, probably yes, but we'd probably redo the loan for the ground to reflect any downturn in our finances. What I keep coming back to is if we don't do it now, then when? The days of a sugar daddy owner coming in and dropping millions on players and grounds are gone, so think we just need to go for it.

 

[est1905]

I'll have some of what you're having! 😉

Seriously, I am sure the club have a contingency plan to pay for the stand if we get relegated, as that is a constant possibility over the time it will take us to pay it off. I would be surprised if it involved a presumption of 34000 sell out crowds, though.

Lets hope we never find out!

In 1994 we'd found ourselves back in the second tier and had only been in the top division for 4 seasons. Everyone described Palace (along with Forest) as two established top flight clubs that are expected to bounce straight back up. After a slow start (I seem to remember it being a home win over Forest that got us going) we did indeed proceed to smash everyone in the division and went back up as champions. Crowds were almost sold out every game.
Thats after just 4 seasons in the top division. We have just completed our 13th!
Our gates will be very healthy if were went down. For the first season at least

 

[est1905]

If we are relegated, and we can't fill it, or even get more than 26000 paying punters in the door, then it hasn't helped us at all. It will be a hinderance, as we will be paying for it out of the clubs money, which could have been spent on players to get back up again.

That wouldn't be helpful.

Again, I am fully supportive of the project, and I hope we move on to the other stands afterwards. I am just pointing out that it comes with implications and risks, like anything else.

Very short sighted outlook. People had a similar opinion when the Holmesdale was built.

 

[est1905]

I know a few people that wouldn't renew their season ticket if we get relegated, they're just not interested in paying to watch sport live, unless its the top level. It's completely impossible to attract new fans at the moment, so its likely when we do go back down we will be getting crowds of about 18k again, which is why having a bigger stadium now is so important. If we were getting 34k for the last 10 years, enough time for people to fall in love and for it to become part of life going to watch Palace, we would retain a certain percentage of them fans and instead of averaging 18k in the championship, we could be averaging what we get now.

This is why winning the odd trophy for a club Palace's size is important. People snag a couple of tickets for Wembley. Take the boy. Have a great day out. They might be fair weather but they'll come to the odd game at Selhurst when tickets are available and the fanbase will grow steadily. This is how all the big clubs did it. Over years of sustained success. Even Liverpool were a relatively small club in comparrison to today back in the 60s before Shankley and Paisley worked their magic

 

[TheBigToePunt]

In 1994 we'd found ourselves back in the second tier and had only been in the top division for 4 seasons. Everyone described Palace (along with Forest) as two established top flight clubs that are expected to bounce straight back up. After a slow start (I seem to remember it being a home win over Forest that got us going) we did indeed proceed to smash everyone in the division and went back up as champions. Crowds were almost sold out every game.
Thats after just 4 seasons in the top division. We have just completed our 13th!
Our gates will be very healthy if were went down. For the first season at least

I'm sure I've made it clear by now, and am starting to bore people, so this is my last on this!

I am very supportive of the new stand project, I'm not for one moment suggesting that we shouldn't do it, or delay it. I totally agree with the excellent point made above that if not now, when? There will always be risk, the rewards seem worth it, we can't do much else to progress as a club save for this, and I will turn up and help paint the f***ing thing if they ask for volunteers!

But...

We wouldn't need it in the Championship.

We wouldn't need it because as old and dated as it is, the Main Stand has not failed any safety certificate test, and there is no evidence that it would do so any time soon.

And, we wouldn't need it because we probably wouldn't even fill the existing ground. We never have. I'm afraid your memory may be playing tricks on you if you recall Selhurst being sold out every week in 94. We averaged a little over 15000 that season:

Average attendances

Crystal Palace Supporters' Website

www.holmesdale.net

Again, I am sure the club have weighed the risks and taken precautions. I am sure relegation would not halt the project or threaten the club. But lets not pretend we can be confident it would make no difference, and certainly not on the basis that we would be sold out. We have no evidence of that, and all the available evidence says that we would not.

My simple opening point was, isn't it good that we could now cash in on some valuable players if we had to? That is part of a wider point about how the on-field state of the club must affect the off-field decisions. We have sellable players now. That's a big difference to the situation in 2018.

Perhaps it explains the delays in some part.

Perhaps these are the things that Parish has been juggling.

Either way, it all matters. Its easy for any of us to say never mind all that we simply must build the stand regardless, and relegation wouldn't be a factor. It seems to me that the real world may beg to differ.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I agree 100%.
I am simply struggling with the idea that there is no important relationship between our on-field position and the building of the stand. It seems to me the two are fundamentally interlinked.

The important relationship is that if we don't make more revenue, we will have to sell players to break even every season. The new stand is a step in the right direction.

I said that Selhurst could be a 50k stadium but realistically, without a major change to the footprint, 40k is about as much as could be squeezed in. That would put us 12th in the capacity league as it stands right now. Interestingly, 34k would put us 13th.

 

[rikz]

I'm sure I've made it clear by now, and am starting to bore people, so this is my last on this!

I am very supportive of the new stand project, I'm not for one moment suggesting that we shouldn't do it, or delay it. I totally agree with the excellent point made above that if not now, when? There will always be risk, the rewards seem worth it, we can't do much else to progress as a club save for this, and I will turn up and help paint the f***ing thing if they ask for volunteers!

But...

We wouldn't need it in the Championship.

We wouldn't need it because as old and dated as it is, the Main Stand has not failed any safety certificate test, and there is no evidence that it would do so any time soon.

And, we wouldn't need it because we probably wouldn't even fill the existing ground. We never have. I'm afraid your memory may be playing tricks on you if you recall Selhurst being sold out every week in 94. We averaged a little over 15000 that season:

Average attendances

Crystal Palace Supporters' Website

www.holmesdale.net

Again, I am sure the club have weighed the risks and taken precautions. I am sure relegation would not halt the project or threaten the club. But lets not pretend we can be confident it would make no difference, and certainly not on the basis that we would be sold out. We have no evidence of that, and all the available evidence says that we would not.

My simple opening point was, isn't it good that we could now cash in on some valuable players if we had to? That is part of a wider point about how the on-field state of the club must affect the off-field decisions. We have sellable players now. That's a big difference to the situation in 2018.

Perhaps it explains the delays in some part.

Perhaps these are the things that Parish has been juggling.

Either way, it all matters. Its easy for any of us to say never mind all that we simply must build the stand regardless, and relegation wouldn't be a factor. It seems to me that the real world may beg to differ.

Our owners have a combined wealth of 18 billion and you want us to sell players to pay for the stand ? You're joking right. They can pay for it, if not, f*** off to another club instead of using us to enhance your personal reputation.