Guessand

[CPFCSaturn]

He was bought in January when there is a 30% despearation supplement added. If Mateta had not been leaving they would probably not have bought him. I think he is okay, probably in the wrong formation for him. Scored a brace vs Sweden yesterday. Not a £40m player but very few are. The money spent these days is ridiculous. Johnson again is okay, but not a £30m player. If he didnt have that milestone round his neck he is a decent squad player. Players sometimes take a while to settle. Mateta, Olise, Kamada, Canvot and Eze took a little while each. If you forget the fees and just assess the squad as a whole. How much some cost is irrelevant to me. Glasner didnt care either. Thats for the club to balance. Kamada cost £0 (but had high wages). Wharton cost £20m but is paid peanuts.

I don't disagree, but I also think the dial for what a £30/40m player is has changed quite drastically over the last year or two, even since the Olise/Eze/Wharton type signings.

This is a list of players bought by Prem clubs last summer for transfer fees around that range:

Milos Kerkez
Alejandro Garnacho
Jacob Ramsey
Mateus Fernandes
Omari Hutchinson
Dango Outtara
Dan N'Doye
Tyler Dibling
Noni Madueke
Jean-Clair Todibo
Kevin
Liam Delap
Jorrel Hato
Mathys Tel
Dilane Bakwa
Malick Thiaw
Bafode Diakite
Charlampos Kostoulas


I don't think Guessand would look remotely out of place on that list - in fact, I think he represents much better value than a lot of them.

The days of £30/40m getting you a top level player have been and gone - it's the cost of a fairly mediocre squad player in the Prem these days, and I think Guessand has shown that he can be at least that, with potential for much more.

 

[MrRobbo]

Its a v good point. Transfer fees have certainly taken a jump.

Got only knows what players like Wharton would cost if we were buying him now.

 

[Badger11]

I don't disagree, but I also think the dial for what a £30/40m player is has changed quite drastically over the last year or two, even since the Olise/Eze/Wharton type signings.

This is a list of players bought by Prem clubs last summer for transfer fees around that range:

Milos Kerkez
Alejandro Garnacho
Jacob Ramsey
Mateus Fernandes
Omari Hutchinson
Dango Outtara
Dan N'Doye
Tyler Dibling
Noni Madueke
Jean-Clair Todibo
Kevin
Liam Delap
Jorrel Hato
Mathys Tel
Dilane Bakwa
Malick Thiaw
Bafode Diakite
Charlampos Kostoulas


I don't think Guessand would look remotely out of place on that list - in fact, I think he represents much better value than a lot of them.

The days of £30/40m getting you a top level player have been and gone - it's the cost of a fairly mediocre squad player in the Prem these days, and I think Guessand has shown that he can be at least that, with potential for much more.

It looks like last season was a bad one for new signing in the PL. It does happen.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I don't disagree, but I also think the dial for what a £30/40m player is has changed quite drastically over the last year or two, even since the Olise/Eze/Wharton type signings.

This is a list of players bought by Prem clubs last summer for transfer fees around that range:

Milos Kerkez
Alejandro Garnacho
Jacob Ramsey
Mateus Fernandes
Omari Hutchinson
Dango Outtara
Dan N'Doye
Tyler Dibling
Noni Madueke
Jean-Clair Todibo
Kevin
Liam Delap
Jorrel Hato
Mathys Tel
Dilane Bakwa
Malick Thiaw
Bafode Diakite
Charlampos Kostoulas


I don't think Guessand would look remotely out of place on that list - in fact, I think he represents much better value than a lot of them.

The days of £30/40m getting you a top level player have been and gone - it's the cost of a fairly mediocre squad player in the Prem these days, and I think Guessand has shown that he can be at least that, with potential for much more.

That's an excellent point.

Thing is, unless our budget has grown in line with average prices, £30 - £40m or however much remains an eye watering sum, even with whatever we banked from Europe. We spent big on Johnson and Larsen, but that followed big sales rather than sustainable income streams.

Plus, isn't it striking how few of these players did well and how many of their teams struggled? There might be a warning there!

 

[CPFCSaturn]

That's an excellent point.

Thing is, unless our budget has grown in line with average prices, £30 - £40m or however much remains an eye watering sum, even with whatever we banked from Europe. We spent big on Johnson and Larsen, but that followed big sales rather than sustainable income streams.

Plus, isn't it striking how few of these players did well and how many of their teams struggled? There might be a warning there!

Honestly I thought I might have to cherry pick slightly to make my point, but that's a pretty exhaustive list of signings in that price range!

 

[Eaglecoops]

Honestly I thought I might have to cherry pick slightly to make my point, but that's a pretty exhaustive list of signings in that price range!

This is exactly why scouring the lower domestic leagues and obscure foreign teams is where the true value lies. Top players have to come from somewhere, it’s all about spotting them before someone else does.

 

[MrRobbo]

This is exactly why scouring the lower domestic leagues and obscure foreign teams is where the true value lies. Top players have to come from somewhere, it’s all about spotting them before someone else does.

It is, but you are gambling that they are going to be able to make the step up.

We have however done pretty well down that route.

I still think that JSL could be a real force, if we start sticking some crosses in.

 

[Willo]

It is, but you are gambling that they are going to be able to make the step up.

We have however done pretty well down that route.

I still think that JSL could be a real force, if we start sticking some crosses in.

At Lens, the vast majority of attacks this season were geared around getting the ball into a crossing opportunity as fast as possible (with them registering the second most crosses in the league according to Opta with 531 attempts).

 

[Eaglecoops]

It is, but you are gambling that they are going to be able to make the step up.

We have however done pretty well down that route.

I still think that JSL could be a real force, if we start sticking some crosses in.

Well we’ve just seen a list posted here of expensive players a lot of whom have not been successful so I’d rather risk a small amount of money on a player and perhaps make an error than spunk £110m on Nketiah, Larson and Johnson and hope they come good because that could be a painful ouch if we have to move them on.

This is how Brighton have made their purchasing a successful model. They buy lots of cheaper/mid price players, some come good, some don’t but generally it has worked well for them.

As you say, generally under Freedman (although he too bought a few plums) we did pretty well at buying mid price and selling high however I do not have the same faith in the current director of football, as his contacts seem only to extend to Wolves players.

 

[Eagle One]

Back on topic! I assume we will wait till the new manager is appointed and after the World Cup before making a decision on making a bid for Guessand?

 

[silvertop]

It is, but you are gambling that they are going to be able to make the step up.

We have however done pretty well down that route.

I still think that JSL could be a real force, if we start sticking some crosses in.

Sage allegedly favours a policy of sticking millions of crosses into the box and hoping enough stick.

 

[Eaglecoops]

Sage allegedly favours a policy of sticking millions of crosses into the box and hoping enough stick.

Which is fine except Larson don’t look that great in the air for a big fella.

 

[eritheagle]

Which is fine except Larson don’t look that great in the air for a big fella.

But yet he still managed to score from a corner against us last season with a header!!

 

[mileend]

But yet he still managed to score from a corner against us last season with a header!!

And two headers yesterday - one from a corner - he might be getting better at them

 

[ASCPFC]

But yet he still managed to score from a corner against us last season with a header!!

He scored a good header for us from a cross, can't remember who against. At a guess, Burnley where he scored two.

 

[Gary St.Andrews]

I don't disagree, but I also think the dial for what a £30/40m player is has changed quite drastically over the last year or two, even since the Olise/Eze/Wharton type signings.

This is a list of players bought by Prem clubs last summer for transfer fees around that range:

Milos Kerkez
Alejandro Garnacho
Jacob Ramsey
Mateus Fernandes
Omari Hutchinson
Dango Outtara
Dan N'Doye
Tyler Dibling
Noni Madueke
Jean-Clair Todibo
Kevin
Liam Delap
Jorrel Hato
Mathys Tel
Dilane Bakwa
Malick Thiaw
Bafode Diakite
Charlampos Kostoulas


I don't think Guessand would look remotely out of place on that list - in fact, I think he represents much better value than a lot of them.

The days of £30/40m getting you a top level player have been and gone - it's the cost of a fairly mediocre squad player in the Prem these days, and I think Guessand has shown that he can be at least that, with potential for much more.

Looking at that list I can’t single out one and say “ what a player “ last season was a very poor Premiership season on quality and VAR was part of the problem along with dire refereeing!

 

[park the bus]

Looking at that list I can’t single out one and say “ what a player “ last season was a very poor Premiership season on quality and VAR was part of the problem along with dire refereeing!

The product is high price, low quality, as exemplified by the team that won it mainly by fouling and play acting as well as VAR and dire referees. The game is in a sorry state.
As for Guessand, there's nothing special about him and we have others in that forward support role.

 

[samprior]

I don't disagree, but I also think the dial for what a £30/40m player is has changed quite drastically over the last year or two, even since the Olise/Eze/Wharton type signings.

This is a list of players bought by Prem clubs last summer for transfer fees around that range:

Milos Kerkez
Alejandro Garnacho
Jacob Ramsey
Mateus Fernandes
Omari Hutchinson
Dango Outtara
Dan N'Doye
Tyler Dibling
Noni Madueke
Jean-Clair Todibo
Kevin
Liam Delap
Jorrel Hato
Mathys Tel
Dilane Bakwa
Malick Thiaw
Bafode Diakite
Charlampos Kostoulas


I don't think Guessand would look remotely out of place on that list - in fact, I think he represents much better value than a lot of them.

The days of £30/40m getting you a top level player have been and gone - it's the cost of a fairly mediocre squad player in the Prem these days, and I think Guessand has shown that he can be at least that, with potential for much more.

Isn't this just a sign that there's more money in the Prem that clubs are willing to throw away. Paying over the odds for overhyped/average players has always been the case, it's now just that there's more clubs with the financial clout to do so.

I can't get on board with the notion, other clubs are spending too much on average players, so there's nothing wrong with us doing the same.

Here's a counter list of decent signings within the couple of seasons who have been good value most of whom were under 20m:

Truffert
Rayan
Kroupi
Kayode
Canvot
Benitez
Dewsbury-Hall
Ndiaye
Stach
Okafor
Calvert Lewin
Guehi
Lammens
Igor Jesus
Diarra
Brobbey
Xhaka
Roefs
El Hadj Diouf

I'm sure there's a load of others but these are the ones that jumped out when I had a quick scan.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Isn't this just a sign that there's more money in the Prem that clubs are willing to throw away. Paying over the odds for overhyped/average players has always been the case, it's now just that there's more clubs with the financial clout to do so.

I can't get on board with the notion, other clubs are spending too much on average players, so there's nothing wrong with us doing the same.

Here's a counter list of decent signings within the couple of seasons who have been good value most of whom were under 20m:

Truffert
Rayan
Kroupi
Kayode
Canvot
Benitez
Dewsbury-Hall
Ndiaye
Stach
Okafor
Calvert Lewin
Guehi
Lammens
Igor Jesus
Diarra
Brobbey
Xhaka
Roefs
El Hadj Diouf

I'm sure there's a load of others but these are the ones that jumped out when I had a quick scan.

Well to determine if something represents reasonable value you need comparables in the same market. Discussing what Guessand (or anyone) is worth in isolation is meaningless without context. Of course the fact there’s more money in the league will continue to push fees and salaries up.

Obviously you can still find value below £30-40m, but it’s harder to do and I’d question whether it’s realistic to build a squad solely shopping at that level.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Isn't this just a sign that there's more money in the Prem that clubs are willing to throw away. Paying over the odds for overhyped/average players has always been the case, it's now just that there's more clubs with the financial clout to do so.

I can't get on board with the notion, other clubs are spending too much on average players, so there's nothing wrong with us doing the same.

Here's a counter list of decent signings within the couple of seasons who have been good value most of whom were under 20m:

Truffert
Rayan
Kroupi
Kayode
Canvot
Benitez
Dewsbury-Hall
Ndiaye
Stach
Okafor
Calvert Lewin
Guehi
Lammens
Igor Jesus
Diarra
Brobbey
Xhaka
Roefs
El Hadj Diouf

I'm sure there's a load of others but these are the ones that jumped out when I had a quick scan.

The transfer market is analogous to the London housing market where spiralling costs and limited availability mean the number of potential buyers is reduced.
With football pricing out all but a few clubs may be a deliberate policy. Palace might not be at the Old Kent Road /Whitechapel end but we're certainly not looking at Park Lane.
Nearly said looking at Mayfair but that might be misconstrued.