US Politics

Wisbech Eagle said:
What is nonsensical about stating facts?

When the police are under resourced but expected to perform an ever increasing number of tasks, often including things that are more appropriately handled by social services, who are also under resourced, they cannot satisfy every demand.

They got criticised over this and eventually set up a dedicated unit. However in the early days if they had devoted more resources to this then other important matters would have received less. They must be now. So whilst I have shown more sympathy and understanding for the police in them trying to juggle an impossible work load I have never defended the actions of the criminals involved in the gangs. I want all of them indentified and the evidence collected. That is made a lot easier if the police enjoy a good relationship with the communities in which the majority of these criminals hide. Trust is needed.

So I also criticise those who undermine that trust. Which the attitudes frequently expressed here tend to do. Especially when delivered by rabble rousers who make a bad situation even worse.
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Sickening attempt to mitigate the non-action of the authorities to stop known activities of muslim child rape-gangs for politically motivated reasons.
 
DanH said:
Has Melania brought up the Epstein files to distract from the Iran war that was to distract from the Epstein files? 🤭

Melania Trump denies ties to Jeffrey Epstein and urges hearing for survivors
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Apparently this has surprised the media and politicians. It maybe as you say or more likely she got wind of someone about to trash her and got her retaliation in first.

Robert Maxwell once had the front page of the Sunday Mirror and multiple pages inside justifying his personal finances. The public were what the hell is this rubbish! I think someone was about to publish a book or expose on him and he found out.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
The assertions that the findings of the report didn't, wouldn't and couldn't happen.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ethnicity of grooming gangs 'shied away from', Casey report says

"We as a society owe these women a debt," the report also says.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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This is an extract from the report you referenced. Cooper being Yvette Cooper:-

“Cooper said: "Ignoring the issues, not examining and exposing them to the light, allows the criminality and depravity of a minority of men to be used to marginalise whole communities."

In a later interview, Lady Casey said the data should be investigated as it was "only helping the bad people" not to give a full picture of the situation, adding: "You're doing a disservice to two sets of population, the Pakistani and Asian heritage community, and victims."

Avoiding the marginalisation of whole communities is something I have argued all along. The police deciding not to collect ethnicity data was them following the existing protocols. Which I understood and defended. However, if the reflected wisdom is that collecting and publishing the data helps to avoid marginalisation then I am happy to accept the expert advice. As I am sure the police are. What was objected to was the desire to collect the data in order to further marginalise via headlines in the right wing press.
 
Badger11 said:
Apparently this has surprised the media and politicians. It maybe as you say or more likely she got wind of someone about to trash her and got her retaliation in first.

Robert Maxwell once had the front page of the Sunday Mirror and multiple pages inside justifying his personal finances. The public were what the hell is this rubbish! I think someone was about to publish a book or expose on him and he found out.
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Have you been following the legal battle between her and Michael Wolff?

She sued him for “$1 billion” for defamation in his book which alleged Epstein introduced her to Trump. Unlike others he has refused to submit to the pressure and is counter sueing. Which will require her to make depositions, under oath and answer questions. Wolff knows something. He is very confident of his position.

Of course it’s not actually her doing this. She is just the figurehead. It’s Trump instructing his lawyers to close down criticism. She though will be the one being questioned.

It could get interesting.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
This is an extract from the report you referenced. Cooper being Yvette Cooper:-

“Cooper said: "Ignoring the issues, not examining and exposing them to the light, allows the criminality and depravity of a minority of men to be used to marginalise whole communities."

In a later interview, Lady Casey said the data should be investigated as it was "only helping the bad people" not to give a full picture of the situation, adding: "You're doing a disservice to two sets of population, the Pakistani and Asian heritage community, and victims."

Avoiding the marginalisation of whole communities is something I have argued all along. The police deciding not to collect ethnicity data was them following the existing protocols. Which I understood and defended. However, if the reflected wisdom is that collecting and publishing the data helps to avoid marginalisation then I am happy to accept the expert advice. As I am sure the police are. What was objected to was the desire to collect the data in order to further marginalise via headlines in the right wing press.
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It was about more than just recording the data.
"The report concluded that ignorance and a fear of being seen as racist meant organisations tasked with protecting children turned a blind eye to abuse".
 
Teddy Eagle said:
It was about more than just recording the data.
"The report concluded that ignorance and a fear of being seen as racist meant organisations tasked with protecting children turned a blind eye to abuse".
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Harsh but if true is further evidence of under resourcing. This time impacting training and the employment of high quality management.

I continue to believe that people don’t usually make bad decisions deliberately.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Harsh but if true is further evidence of under resourcing. This time impacting training and the employment of high quality management.

I continue to believe that people don’t usually make bad decisions deliberately.
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It isn't evidence of anything except a policy determined to avoid being considered racist.
If collecting data would have had a detrimental effect on community cohesion then decades of systematic abuse will have been far worse. There are an untold number of young girls and their families who suffered, and continue to do so because of this decision.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
It was about more than just recording the data.
"The report concluded that ignorance and a fear of being seen as racist meant organisations tasked with protecting children turned a blind eye to abuse".
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As we know these people still have jobs.

It's because their bosses supported their attitude.

Because the leaders of multiple institutions themselves are responsible all the way to the very top in Ten Downing Street under several PMs.

None of them wanted to know.

But hey, even Wisbech knew as he informed us years ago on here that he had a phone call over twenty years that told him about it.....and he spent great capital on here supporting the Police response....none of which is supporting in reports...and then making excuses for the incredibly serious failures over decades.
 
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Teddy Eagle said:
It isn't evidence of anything except a policy determined to avoid being considered racist.
If collecting data would have had a detrimental effect on community cohesion then decades of systematic abuse will have been far worse. There are an untold number of young girls and their families who suffered, and continue to do so because of this decision.
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Only to those determined to attribute blame to someone. I don’t agree. Discouraging communities from believing they are being targeted may well have created an environment in which avoiding any perceptions of racism was seen as a positive action. It should, and probably did, have had no impact at all on the victims. Indeed it was probably intended to help them by encouraging the cooperation of those communities.

If the received wisdom is that the reverse is true, so be it. That’s what will happen unless and until that itself is disproven. Time alone will determine that.

What isn’t true is that there was any malicious motivation behind the policies. People were, and are, trying to do their best.
 
Stirlingsays said:
As we know these people still have jobs.

It's because their bosses supported their attitude.

Because the leaders of multiple institutions themselves are responsible all the way to the very top in Ten Downing Street under several PMs.

None of them wanted to know.

But hey, even Wisbech knew as he informed us years ago on here that he had a phone call over twenty years that told him about it.....and he spent great capital on here supporting the Police response....none of which is supporting in reports...and then making excuses for the incredibly serious failures over decades.
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You are, yet again, posting misinformation.

The information I got came from one of my children. Not from a phone call. It was more like 40 years ago than 20 and was hearsay. Nevertheless I reported it to our local police, with whom I was on good terms, who reassured me they were aware of the rumours and had the matter in hand.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Only to those determined to attribute blame to someone. I don’t agree. Discouraging communities from believing they are being targeted may well have created an environment in which avoiding any perceptions of racism was seen as a positive action. It should, and probably did, have had no impact at all on the victims. Indeed it was probably intended to help them by encouraging the cooperation of those communities.

If the received wisdom is that the reverse is true, so be it. That’s what will happen unless and until that itself is disproven. Time alone will determine that.

What isn’t true is that there was any malicious motivation behind the policies. People were, and are, trying to do their best.
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Disgusting.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
You are, yet again, posting misinformation.

The information I got came from one of my children. Not from a phone call. It was more like 40 years ago than 20 and was hearsay. Nevertheless I reported it to our local police, with whom I was on good terms, who reassured me they were aware of the rumours and had the matter in hand.
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That's not how I remember you posting about it at the time.

Though it does sound plausible, so I won't pass judgement as to whether I believe it or not.

However, the core of what I said reminds true.

You heard about this at least a decade before it came out and that you defended the Police response on here and made excuses for them that no report agreed were valid and didn't offer......Yet you put up on here time and time again.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Only to those determined to attribute blame to someone. I don’t agree. Discouraging communities from believing they are being targeted may well have created an environment in which avoiding any perceptions of racism was seen as a positive action. It should, and probably did, have had no impact at all on the victims. Indeed it was probably intended to help them by encouraging the cooperation of those communities.

If the received wisdom is that the reverse is true, so be it. That’s what will happen unless and until that itself is disproven. Time alone will determine that.

What isn’t true is that there was any malicious motivation behind the policies. People were, and are, trying to do their best.
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One community was being targeted.
Of course it had an effect on the victims; they weren't properly treated and there wouldn't have been as many of them had action been taken earlier.
At the time the advice was to wait for the report. We've now had the report and even though it confirms what was said at the time it's still wrong.
 
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