Iran

silvertop said:
I see your point but it ignores the last line in my post.

It isn't comparing apples, but I will give you a contrast.

Borneo 1960s. Sukarno's Soviet backed attempt to seize the whole island. The UK defended Brunei and Malayan Borneo with highly specialist jungle trained forces used sparingly. However, its main weapon was hearts and minds. It won over the locals meaning the Indonesians didn't have a friend to support them. Winner: UK with relatively nominal casualties.

Vietnam 1960s. The North's Chinese backed revolution. The US propped up a deeply corrupt and wholly unpopular regime with little thought of what the minds thought or hearts felt. They gave a maximum of zero consideration to winning over the population but instead opted for resource overkill sending in hundreds and thousands of troops and carpet bombing the country and its neighbours back to the stone age. Winner: Communist Vietnam with millions dead, the knock on consequences of Cambodia and decades of regional instability and a superpower humiliated and in shock for a generation.

Have most people heard of Borneo? Nope. Good.

There are always different options. Shock and awe only looks good in the press as Netenyahu's unwavering popularity in Israel demonstrated throughout his ethnic cleansing exercise in Gaza.
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I won't criticise you for providing a reductionist description of those wars because whole books are written on them and it's a forum post. But obviously there is a lot more to what happened in both than differences in approach equaling success or failure.

That said, I kind of agree with you on the ideals.
I'm not someone who supports prosecuting soldiers, because I know what happens when you put people into life and death situations. It comes down to leadership from the top down.

I will say is that holding to certain principles should be a central core of what your military is and how it sees itself......Unlike some I can think of I'm not a supporter of the ends always justifies the means....A good way of discerning that can be if you support the nuking of Japan in 1945 because it ended the war.

Anyway, there are always different options and I think both on Ukraine and Iran wrong ones have been pursued.

As we know there are many parts as to why those options were chosen and how we got here.
 
DanH said:
You’re more loyal to the US and Russia than you are your own country and continent.

Utterly shameful.
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Idiotic.

This government are a leftist joke. They care not one iota for the people of this country.
They are anti Trump and pro career.
Anyone who cares about Britain will remove them at the first opportunity. Meanwhile, people like you hide behind spin.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Idiotic.

This government are a leftist joke. They care not one iota for the people of this country.
They are anti Trump and pro career.
Anyone who cares about Britain will remove them at the first opportunity. Meanwhile, people like you hide behind spin.
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I genuinely wonder if you ever read your posts back to yourself and asking ‘am I being a massive tit here?’ before hitting send sometimes.
 
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