War in the Middle East

The only winner in this is Israel. They have got Trump to do their dirty work and fire off billions in missiles and drones and managed to goad Iran to bomb their neighbours including those with Shia populations!!
What has Israel got on Trump?
Oh, and we now have regime change, the Ayatollah’s son is taking over and the Iranians seem to be behind their leaders.
 
silvertop said:
I offered solutions.

You made rude personal comments but offered literally no alternative practical solution.

A completely wasted post.
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I have told you exactly what we need to do. You just don't want to listen.
 
For once I agree with Starmer. We should keep well out of this war. His reasons maybe dubious but it's the right one.

I am sick of seeing British soldiers coming home in body bags just so the elite can enrich themselves.

Iran is not a direct threat to the UK although it is a hideous regime but then so are plenty of others. I don't hear anyone calling for action against African countries or China.

We are not the policeman of the world. If Saudi and the other ME countries feel threatened b Iran let them take them on.
 
McAhuna said:
No, you didn't.
You repeatedly said you didn't have any solutions.
Just critiqued the solutions that others offered.
Gaslighting extraordinaire
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2 points.

Firstly, if you suggest something unworkable, I am as entitled as you to point out why it is unworkable.

Secondly, I did present solutions. You just didn't read them.

I said we need to continue to deal with those countries from whom the migrants come to persuade them to take them back. We need to do it more aggressively. They are weaker than us. Bully and cajole. If the migrants come back (which will be a criminal offence), we send them back again, but not until they have served an unpleasant prison term.

We need to enter a treaty with the EU. Failed application there = failed application here (and vice versa). An appeal is only allowed in the country where the application was submitted. This is politically difficult at home. This crosses Brexit lines as we will have to offer the EU something in return as they currently have a nice flow of 40,000 + migrants a year elsewhere. Also, migrants desperate to come here will simply bypass all other EU states. But I am convinced they are not as plentiful as you think. Many on the boats are failed applicants elsewhere in the EU. See how they do in Norway or Switzerland.

To this you can add more resources to Border Control, attacking modern slavery and the black economy, continuing with early process of applications (not where the problem is), simplifying, accelerating and streamlining the appeals process (where the problem is) and effecting immediate removal of all migrants following any sentence (all those who have committed a crime) or failed application (asylum seekers). All at a price considerably less than the Rwanda project.
 
silvertop said:
2 points.

Firstly, if you suggest something unworkable, I am as entitled as you to point out why it is unworkable.

Secondly, I did present solutions. You just didn't read them.

I said we need to continue to deal with those countries from whom the migrants come to persuade them to take them back. We need to do it more aggressively. They are weaker than us. Bully and cajole. If the migrants come back (which will be a criminal offence), we send them back again, but not until they have served an unpleasant prison term.

We need to enter a treaty with the EU. Failed application there = failed application here (and vice versa). An appeal is only allowed in the country where the application was submitted. This is politically difficult at home. This crosses Brexit lines as we will have to offer the EU something in return as they currently have a nice flow of 40,000 + migrants a year elsewhere. Also, migrants desperate to come here will simply bypass all other EU states. But I am convinced they are not as plentiful as you think. Many on the boats are failed applicants elsewhere in the EU. See how they do in Norway or Switzerland.

To this you can add more resources to Border Control, attacking modern slavery and the black economy, continuing with early process of applications (not where the problem is), simplifying, accelerating and streamlining the appeals process (where the problem is) and effecting immediate removal of all migrants following any sentence (all those who have committed a crime) or failed application (asylum seekers). All at a price considerably less than the Rwanda project.
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So the main parts of your solution are....

1) Bully countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Gaza
2) Make another treaty with our EU neighbours (the French)

I am not sure you have been paying attention, but those haven't exactly gone well for us in the past, particularly number 1.

"simplifying, accelerating and streamlining the appeals process" is just empty simplistic aspirational words without any meaningful substance or understanding of how the law works in practice.
The only way you might meaningfully achieve that is by leaving the ECHR. Is that what you are proposing?
 
silvertop said:
2 points.

Firstly, if you suggest something unworkable, I am as entitled as you to point out why it is unworkable.

Secondly, I did present solutions. You just didn't read them.

I said we need to continue to deal with those countries from whom the migrants come to persuade them to take them back. We need to do it more aggressively. They are weaker than us. Bully and cajole. If the migrants come back (which will be a criminal offence), we send them back again, but not until they have served an unpleasant prison term.

We need to enter a treaty with the EU. Failed application there = failed application here (and vice versa). An appeal is only allowed in the country where the application was submitted. This is politically difficult at home. This crosses Brexit lines as we will have to offer the EU something in return as they currently have a nice flow of 40,000 + migrants a year elsewhere. Also, migrants desperate to come here will simply bypass all other EU states. But I am convinced they are not as plentiful as you think. Many on the boats are failed applicants elsewhere in the EU. See how they do in Norway or Switzerland.

To this you can add more resources to Border Control, attacking modern slavery and the black economy, continuing with early process of applications (not where the problem is), simplifying, accelerating and streamlining the appeals process (where the problem is) and effecting immediate removal of all migrants following any sentence (all those who have committed a crime) or failed application (asylum seekers). All at a price considerably less than the Rwanda project.
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On the basis that the words "I claim asylum" outweigh the need for a passport, and that migrants travel through Europe to get here, then may I suggest the following scenario as a solution:

Crowborough is a town in Sussex which is fighting against the use of a nearby army barracks to house about 500 male asylum seekers. It has been refurbished, has a canteen, exercise facilities...and a fence, and is basically a better place than when the army cadets used it. It is about a mile from the town's centre.

Keep the migrants within the camp whilst their application is being processed...yes, I know people will say things like it is a prisoner of war camp, but the conditions will be considerably better than the tent city in northern France, and presumably better than the awful conditions they experienced in their home country. The point is, the local population would feel safer, and this is what half of the complaints relate to.

I assume that somewhere in the 'International Asylum Handbook' we have to treat asylum seekers as normal citizens with free movement. So change the law that applies to this category of person.

The UK government is providing shelter, food, medical assistance and safety from oppression...isn't that what asylum seekers want?

It should deter the chancers from making the crossing if they know what happens to them.

It would be cheaper than Rwanda and doesn't rely on other governments entering into long negotiations with us that never seem to achieve anything.
 
silvertop said:
Scrolling back, you said:

The Navy would be very happy to police the channel and deliver boat people back to where they belong...

Is that your solution?
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Are you unable to read properly or just a bit dim?

The key factor is the law and how it is abused. The government hide behind it and lawyers exploit it. How these people are physically transported is secondary.

We have many Labour MPs worried about their jobs because their constituencies are full of immigrants and liberal delusionals. They oppose any strong approach to deal with illegals. Starmer and his halfwit crew are scared stiff. Mahmood is going out on a limb to look tough, but she must know that it is futile while her own party are in power.

The only way forward is a proper right wing government.
 
Millionaires and Billionaires are hiring private jets to fly back into the war torn middle east to avoid staying out of their birth country too long , Which would mean them losing their low or even tax free status .
Prices for private hire jets have rocketed by all accounts .
 
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Racehorse-80s said:
Millionaires and Billionaires are hiring private jets to fly back into the war torn middle east to avoid staying out of their birth country too long , Which would mean them losing their low or even tax free status .
Prices for private hire jets have rocketed by all accounts .
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When one cops a missile it will focus what’s important !
 
kevlee said:
The only winner in this is Israel. They have got Trump to do their dirty work and fire off billions in missiles and drones and managed to goad Iran to bomb their neighbours including those with Shia populations!!
What has Israel got on Trump?
Oh, and we now have regime change, the Ayatollah’s son is taking over and the Iranians seem to be behind their leaders.
Click to expand...
Election funding, the big donators to any political campaign in the USA are of jewish descent and no President can possibly be elected without the very big bucks they provide, someone cross -questioned weather Jamie Dimon the head of Goldman Sachs had a jewish affiliation, he is married to a lady who is a jewish proffessor, I admire the jews for their work ethic.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Are you unable to read properly or just a bit dim?

The key factor is the law and how it is abused. The government hide behind it and lawyers exploit it. How these people are physically transported is secondary.

We have many Labour MPs worried about their jobs because their constituencies are full of immigrants and liberal delusionals. They oppose any strong approach to deal with illegals. Starmer and his halfwit crew are scared stiff. Mahmood is going out on a limb to look tough, but she must know that it is futile while her own party are in power.

The only way forward is a proper right wing government.
Click to expand...

Literally had that for most the last couple of decades and they can’t run a bath.
 
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