War in the Middle East

We all have those.

Also, define which weapons they have that are aggressive and not "passive defensive" (whatever the feck that means in the context of ordnance) ?

I am also not impressed with this constant reference to the state sponsorship of terrorism point hauled out to justify any action against Iran. When pressed for evidence of this, after some umming and arring, people are left only with proxy wars in the region (no way has the West ever engaged in them), and radical Islamic organizations whose sole ambit is the destruction of Israel.

On the latter, a valid point; but not our war. Israel is big enough and ugly enough to look after its own problems. Did we enlist their help (or anyone's) in Northern Ireland?

When pressed for terrorism by Iran directly against British (or other Western) interests..? The last time I raised the point, someone actually referenced the kidnap of US embassy staff in 1979!!!
Also, define which weapons they have that are aggressive and not "passive defensive" (whatever the feck that means in the context of ordnance) ?

Let's just say that passive defensive means a system that remains inoperable until it is needed to destroy an attack, rather like the iron dome used by Israel. I'm pretty sure Iran have similar systems on a local basis but considerably more money seems to have been invested in drones and ballistic missiles which are attack orientated. Some of this exported to terrorist groups in the region.

Yes, I know we have them too, but we also have a democracy. Again, another difference.

I'm with you in that this is not our war but we have to try and do the best in the circumstances.
 
Not really.
Loads of fatalities. Loads of mourning families. Kids left without fathers.
So corrupt governments can have a dick-waving competition.
But each to their own.

this is not a discussion about the overbearing Welfare State. Taxing the daylights out of working people ( workers with or without kids) and then lavishing every single mummy with a Porsche & a free house.
 
Not really.
Loads of fatalities. Loads of mourning families. Kids left without fathers.
So corrupt governments can have a dick-waving competition.
But each to their own.
They signed up and would have sunk the sub given the first shot. Lots of fatalities mourning families and kids without fathers. Just so Iran can put their sick ideology on everyone.
 
Who will take them?

And "I don't care" is not a good answer.

If we are delivering people back to their origin country, firstly the cost would be terrifying. Secondly, if that nation is in conflict, you are asking the navy to sail into risky waters. Thirdly, if that nation sends out boats to stop the return, are you suggesting the RN engages.

If we are delivering them back to France, they have made it clear they will not take them. France have a very capable military.
France is a safe country so no one who enters the UK illegally from France should be considered as, or treated as, a refugee and valid asylum seeker.

Why do people have such a mental block they can't recognise this
 
"Former"? So he's not even there

No, he's not. Neither are any of us.

As a former U.S. ARMY Colonel he is likely to have some significant insights, I would have thought.

I wouldn't accept his views verbatim, but I'd take them more seriously than the BBC, Sky, CNN, etc.
 
I have a solution.
A holding, processing area.
Perhaps like Rwanda or similar.
Rwanda is one of the most thriving countries in Africa, I'd like to visit it myself, before anyone suggests it is an inhumane idea.

Now tell us your solution.
Give me the costings on that for c 50,000 a year and we can chat.
 
And not according to India it would seem.

India rejects claims that the US is using Indian ports to launch strikes on Iran.
Colonel MacGregor alleges that US forcers are utilising Indian ports for logistics.

Spot the difference
 
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I have given you a solution. The problem is that people like you only see reasons not to do things while people like me do the opposite.
And people like you see simple solutions to really complex problems. Populism in a nutshell.

Before I carry on, can we please drop the "lefty" rubbish you spit at anyone who even slightly disagrees with you. On this topic, I suspect we are in complete agreement. I want to see the small boats stopped. I want all illegals removed. I would also like to see any legal become illegal if they are convicted of a crime. If it still exists, I want to see applications for entry rejected for e.g. elderly parents of new citizens/residents. And I would like to see people issued with NHS cards to show they are paying NI (or have paid sufficient to qualify for a state pension or benefits) before they receive free care (A&E excluded).

In terms of how, your suggestion of the Royal Navy mopping them up and dropping them off at their origin country is pie in the sky. Too many reasons for that to be anything but barking nuts.

We had Rwanda as a possible option; but consider the cost.

The Home Office would pay £370 million, and then further amounts depending on the number of people relocated to Rwanda.

The UK government would then make payments that are dependent on the number of individuals relocated: £120 million once 300 people have been relocated; and payments of £20,000 per individual relocated thereafter.

The Home Office would also pay a total of £151,000 per individual (!) relocated to cover the asylum processing and operational costs.

If a relocated individual decides to leave Rwanda, the UK would stop payments for that individual but would pay the Government of Rwanda a one-off £10,000 per individual to help facilitate their voluntary departure.

That is for, say, 40,000 to 50,000 migrants a year, possibly more. While I accept a reduction in small boats through disincentive, remember not all illegals come by dingy; and there are countless folk already here who will need to be processed.

£715m was spent on this scheme to the point it was scrapped. A shocking waste to the public purse, but pennies compared to the cost of the scheme if fully implemented.

I am aware that feelings run high over this issue, but have you really considered the opportunity cost of full implementation? The public won't stand for the current situation to continue unchecked and will vote in Reform to deal with it.

However, they will absolutely not tolerate the collapse in public services given the eye watering sums that will need to be spent to properly fund this scheme.

And will it even work? Australia is the example cited. Less than a 1000 in offshore detention; and record numbers of immigrants recorded. A total failure.

Recall the moment when Farage went from promising the earth without costing to complete row back on all promises unless properly costed. Clearly, his backers in the City had taken him aside and had a quiet word. If Reform come in on a mandate of strict immigration but through sustainable funding, I would be genuinely surprised if they reignite this policy or any other that is actually effective in numerical/disincentive terms. It will be all "ICE-lite" and showy political stunts demonstrating "something being done". I suspect their rear ends will have barely warmed the Front Bench before there are cries of "Betrayal" from this site and elsewhere.

I don't have a perfect solution. Continue hard negotiation with the various "donor" nations to take them back. Swallow some humble pie with the EU to tie any application made here or there with each other. Migrants are flocking here if their application is rejected as failure in one EU state is failure in all. If it is also failure here, they may not come. However, that may still leave the practical issue of where to "return" them to countries who may not want them back.

Both options will require unpalatable compromise and cost but are better and more cost effective than the other options.
 
And people like you see simple solutions to really complex problems. Populism in a nutshell.

Before I carry on, can we please drop the "lefty" rubbish you spit at anyone who even slightly disagrees with you. On this topic, I suspect we are in complete agreement. I want to see the small boats stopped. I want all illegals removed. I would also like to see any legal become illegal if they are convicted of a crime. If it still exists, I want to see applications for entry rejected for e.g. elderly parents of new citizens/residents. And I would like to see people issued with NHS cards to show they are paying NI (or have paid sufficient to qualify for a state pension or benefits) before they receive free care (A&E excluded).

In terms of how, your suggestion of the Royal Navy mopping them up and dropping them off at their origin country is pie in the sky. Too many reasons for that to be anything but barking nuts.

We had Rwanda as a possible option; but consider the cost.

The Home Office would pay £370 million, and then further amounts depending on the number of people relocated to Rwanda.

The UK government would then make payments that are dependent on the number of individuals relocated: £120 million once 300 people have been relocated; and payments of £20,000 per individual relocated thereafter.

The Home Office would also pay a total of £151,000 per individual (!) relocated to cover the asylum processing and operational costs.

If a relocated individual decides to leave Rwanda, the UK would stop payments for that individual but would pay the Government of Rwanda a one-off £10,000 per individual to help facilitate their voluntary departure.

That is for, say, 40,000 to 50,000 migrants a year, possibly more. While I accept a reduction in small boats through disincentive, remember not all illegals come by dingy; and there are countless folk already here who will need to be processed.

£715m was spent on this scheme to the point it was scrapped. A shocking waste to the public purse, but pennies compared to the cost of the scheme if fully implemented.

I am aware that feelings run high over this issue, but have you really considered the opportunity cost of full implementation? The public won't stand for the current situation to continue unchecked and will vote in Reform to deal with it.

However, they will absolutely not tolerate the collapse in public services given the eye watering sums that will need to be spent to properly fund this scheme.

And will it even work? Australia is the example cited. Less than a 1000 in offshore detention; and record numbers of immigrants recorded. A total failure.

Recall the moment when Farage went from promising the earth without costing to complete row back on all promises unless properly costed. Clearly, his backers in the City had taken him aside and had a quiet word. If Reform come in on a mandate of strict immigration but through sustainable funding, I would be genuinely surprised if they reignite this policy or any other that is actually effective in numerical/disincentive terms. It will be all "ICE-lite" and showy political stunts demonstrating "something being done". I suspect their rear ends will have barely warmed the Front Bench before there are cries of "Betrayal" from this site and elsewhere.

I don't have a perfect solution. Continue hard negotiation with the various "donor" nations to take them back. Swallow some humble pie with the EU to tie any application made here or there with each other. Migrants are flocking here if their application is rejected as failure in one EU state is failure in all. If it is also failure here, they may not come. However, that may still leave the practical issue of where to "return" them to countries who may not want them back.

Both options will require unpalatable compromise and cost but are better and more cost effective than the other options.
It's always very irritating to hear how difficult it is to fix problem from the very kind of people who created the problem in the first place.
It could have all been avoided if they had listened to people like me. So bearing that in mind, I'll file your observations under 'know all lefties still telling us how to think'. Oh, but you aren't a lefty are you. I forgot. Just a know all.

Changes to the law to stop greedy lawyers preventing elected ministers from protecting the British people are necessary. This government are all talk and no action. Trying to out Reform Reform with hollow promises is yet another desperate gesture from a doomed party. The monetary cost of things does not always reflect their true value. Ridding ourselves of some of the scum we have allowed into Britain would be priceless. The sooner, the better.


Vote Reform or vote Restore but get these arseholes out.
 
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And people like you see simple solutions to really complex problems. Populism in a nutshell.

Before I carry on, can we please drop the "lefty" rubbish you spit at anyone who even slightly disagrees with you. On this topic, I suspect we are in complete agreement. I want to see the small boats stopped. I want all illegals removed. I would also like to see any legal become illegal if they are convicted of a crime. If it still exists, I want to see applications for entry rejected for e.g. elderly parents of new citizens/residents. And I would like to see people issued with NHS cards to show they are paying NI (or have paid sufficient to qualify for a state pension or benefits) before they receive free care (A&E excluded).

In terms of how, your suggestion of the Royal Navy mopping them up and dropping them off at their origin country is pie in the sky. Too many reasons for that to be anything but barking nuts.

We had Rwanda as a possible option; but consider the cost.

The Home Office would pay £370 million, and then further amounts depending on the number of people relocated to Rwanda.

The UK government would then make payments that are dependent on the number of individuals relocated: £120 million once 300 people have been relocated; and payments of £20,000 per individual relocated thereafter.

The Home Office would also pay a total of £151,000 per individual (!) relocated to cover the asylum processing and operational costs.

If a relocated individual decides to leave Rwanda, the UK would stop payments for that individual but would pay the Government of Rwanda a one-off £10,000 per individual to help facilitate their voluntary departure.

That is for, say, 40,000 to 50,000 migrants a year, possibly more. While I accept a reduction in small boats through disincentive, remember not all illegals come by dingy; and there are countless folk already here who will need to be processed.

£715m was spent on this scheme to the point it was scrapped. A shocking waste to the public purse, but pennies compared to the cost of the scheme if fully implemented.

I am aware that feelings run high over this issue, but have you really considered the opportunity cost of full implementation? The public won't stand for the current situation to continue unchecked and will vote in Reform to deal with it.

However, they will absolutely not tolerate the collapse in public services given the eye watering sums that will need to be spent to properly fund this scheme.

And will it even work? Australia is the example cited. Less than a 1000 in offshore detention; and record numbers of immigrants recorded. A total failure.

Recall the moment when Farage went from promising the earth without costing to complete row back on all promises unless properly costed. Clearly, his backers in the City had taken him aside and had a quiet word. If Reform come in on a mandate of strict immigration but through sustainable funding, I would be genuinely surprised if they reignite this policy or any other that is actually effective in numerical/disincentive terms. It will be all "ICE-lite" and showy political stunts demonstrating "something being done". I suspect their rear ends will have barely warmed the Front Bench before there are cries of "Betrayal" from this site and elsewhere.

I don't have a perfect solution. Continue hard negotiation with the various "donor" nations to take them back. Swallow some humble pie with the EU to tie any application made here or there with each other. Migrants are flocking here if their application is rejected as failure in one EU state is failure in all. If it is also failure here, they may not come. However, that may still leave the practical issue of where to "return" them to countries who may not want them back.

Both options will require unpalatable compromise and cost but are better and more cost effective than the other options.
Still seems cheaper than the Chagos deal!
 
It's always very irritating to hear how difficult it is to fix problem from the very kind of people who created the problem in the first place.
It could have all been avoided if they had listened to people like me. So bearing that in mind, I'll file your observations under 'know all lefties still telling us how to think'. Oh, but you aren't a lefty are you. I forgot. Just a know all.

Changes to the law to stop greedy lawyers preventing elected ministers from protecting the British people are necessary. This government are all talk and no action. Trying to out Reform Reform with hollow promises is yet another desperate gesture from a doomed party. The monetary cost of things does not always reflect their true value. Ridding ourselves of some of the scum we have allowed into Britain would be priceless. The sooner, the better.


Vote Reform or vote Restore but get these arseholes out.
I offered solutions.

You made rude personal comments but offered literally no alternative practical solution.

A completely wasted post.
 

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