War in Ukraine

McAhuna said:
I mostly agree with you, but there are also a fair few videos out there from Brits who made the leap and moved over there and now seriously regret it. They are fighting a war for their own survival. People are a resource and they will use that resource to win.
Not sure I blame them in the circumstances, but people need to be aware of what they might be letting themselves in for.
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Yep, no Anglos should be fighting in a war between Slavs.

A simple lesson that WW1 should have taught.
 
Spindle said:
I don't care, this bloke has brought up these theories for bloody everything. He's a loon, must have no friends who aren't loons, and if missus hasn't walked out with him going on about it at dinner then she soon will.

These docs are 4 years before invasion, colour me surprised that there are businessmen working with countries like Ukraine who have plenty of corrupt ways to extract even more money.

As for Matov about how great Russian life is, of he's so sure then he can move there, easily. Putin offers citizenship for westerners, plus a job and somewhere to live. Go for it.
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Well, none of us know each other....I think.

When it comes to political content, I'm not that interested in how socially capable someone is or how popular they might be with birds or the missus. What matters to me is were they proven correct or not.

The truth matters to me.

If your boss was lying to you as an employee about the stuff you were doing....you might not be bothered but I would. I know you are making bank working in weapons manufacturing and more power to you (because we need more investment in the military anyway) but that doesn't extend to actually supporting underhand and dangerous shite, they lie about, which puts us closer to pandemics and new wars.

As the fourth estate, journalism should be interested in finding out the truth......So much of it is bought and sold now that it's important that what remains isn't attacked.
 
Ukraine have bombed the Druzbha oil node in Russia completely cutting off Slovakia's access to oil & I think it's around 30% for Hungary.

A quick summary
Theres been a fair bit of backwards & forwards between SK & Ukraine over the pipeline for a while now, given Slovakia's location it depends entirely on this pipeline.
Ukraine wants the pipeline switched off to hurt Russia whilst without it Slovakia would be forced to import at huge expense.

Ukraine have a few times turned the pipeline off & in retaliation Slovakia have turned off the emergency electricity they supply to Ukraine when they need it, things have now escalated with Ukraine bombing the facility.
Croatia have offered to connect their pipeline to Slovakia but it's complicated & isn't something that can be done quickly.


The EU have asked Ukraine to repair the facility

There are now murmurings of the military getting involved by Slovakia & Hungary against Ukraine (more so from Budapest) but that is all I've seen so far.

This is an attack on two NATO members, if NATO was worth anything at all this probably would trigger at least some action from NATO alas were backing the 'good guy' in this civil war so both nations are left having to deal with Ukraine attempting to bully it's neighbours.
 
Ouzo Dan said:
Ukraine have bombed the Druzbha oil node in Russia completely cutting off Slovakia's access to oil & I think it's around 30% for Hungary.

A quick summary
Theres been a fair bit of backwards & forwards between SK & Ukraine over the pipeline for a while now, given Slovakia's location it depends entirely on this pipeline.
Ukraine wants the pipeline switched off to hurt Russia whilst without it Slovakia would be forced to import at huge expense.

Ukraine have a few times turned the pipeline off & in retaliation Slovakia have turned off the emergency electricity they supply to Ukraine when they need it, things have now escalated with Ukraine bombing the facility.
Croatia have offered to connect their pipeline to Slovakia but it's complicated & isn't something that can be done quickly.


The EU have asked Ukraine to repair the facility

There are now murmurings of the military getting involved by Slovakia & Hungary against Ukraine (more so from Budapest) but that is all I've seen so far.

This is an attack on two NATO members, if NATO was worth anything at all this probably would trigger at least some action from NATO alas were backing the 'good guy' in this civil war so both nations are left having to deal with Ukraine attempting to bully it's neighbours.
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The sooner the social liberals are kicked out of power in Europe the sooner we can calm everything down.

Ukraine wants to keep the war going as long as possible, because they know that the moment it stops then the level of money gets cut and....then it gets spicy in several ways......'Europe' wants it to continue because its foolish leaders can't abide the result and continues its only hope that Russia collapses.....the same dream for four years.

By not getting out of this war years ago we have been playing dice with ever increasing involvement.

I just hope that nobody does anything more stupid than what they have already been doing.

Zero gain, only costs.
 
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The Daily Telegraph: Western plans to send troops to Ukrainian territory after the war ends will require Russian approval.

All that posturing and it's all so predictable in the end.

So many lies and it comes down to exactly what you'd think.
 
Kiev and much of Ukraine will leave sub zero temperatures in the coming days, bringing much needed relief for the country. However they will need to repair all the burst water and sewage pipe as they start to thaw out....some time before they are back to normal in that sense.
 
Ouzo Dan said:
Ukraine have bombed the Druzbha oil node in Russia completely cutting off Slovakia's access to oil & I think it's around 30% for Hungary.

A quick summary
Theres been a fair bit of backwards & forwards between SK & Ukraine over the pipeline for a while now, given Slovakia's location it depends entirely on this pipeline.
Ukraine wants the pipeline switched off to hurt Russia whilst without it Slovakia would be forced to import at huge expense.

Ukraine have a few times turned the pipeline off & in retaliation Slovakia have turned off the emergency electricity they supply to Ukraine when they need it, things have now escalated with Ukraine bombing the facility.
Croatia have offered to connect their pipeline to Slovakia but it's complicated & isn't something that can be done quickly.


The EU have asked Ukraine to repair the facility

There are now murmurings of the military getting involved by Slovakia & Hungary against Ukraine (more so from Budapest) but that is all I've seen so far.

This is an attack on two NATO members, if NATO was worth anything at all this probably would trigger at least some action from NATO alas were backing the 'good guy' in this civil war so both nations are left having to deal with Ukraine attempting to bully it's neighbours.
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Viktor Orban was talking of military mobilisation yesterday.

Dumb move by Ukraine. Hungary (and Poland) have historic claim on Ukrainian territory, and will have half an eye on a bigger prize.
But then Ukraine has form for provoking all the wrong people.
 
McAhuna said:
Viktor Orban was talking of military mobilisation yesterday.

Dumb move by Ukraine. Hungary (and Poland) have historic claim on Ukrainian territory, and will have half an eye on a bigger prize.
But then Ukraine has form for provoking all the wrong people.
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It would be just another way of getting Nato troops there......widening the war has always been their only chance outside of Russian economic collapse.
 
McAhuna said:
Viktor Orban was talking of military mobilisation yesterday.

Dumb move by Ukraine. Hungary (and Poland) have historic claim on Ukrainian territory, and will have half an eye on a bigger prize.
But then Ukraine has form for provoking all the wrong people.
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Agree, it is a dumb move, Europe still gets the majority of its oil from Russia, it's just done through a pro Kremlin India.
Zelensky knows he has an infinite money faucet so is prepared to piss off his allies knowing nothing will be done about it.
 
Ouzo Dan said:
Agree, it is a dumb move, Europe still gets the majority of its oil from Russia, it's just done through a pro Kremlin India.
Zelensky knows he has an infinite money faucet so is prepared to piss off his allies knowing nothing will be done about it.
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It's an EU issue rather than NATO, mentioned elsewhere, there is an exemption I thought?
 
chris123 said:
It's an EU issue rather than NATO, mentioned elsewhere, there is an exemption I thought?
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Thought I'd ask AI,

Seems it should trigger article 4 however it goes on to say there is considerable grey arey as NATO have recently expanded the definition of what can trigger article 5 to include hybrid warfare, attacking a countries economy with the downstream intent of harming it's military is included, from what I understand the expansion around definitions is deliberately vague, we can't have our great leaders make decisive action can we?

You're all free to decide if destroying a NATO members entire oil supply with everything that comes downstream of that is an act of war or not.

I personally think it does.
 
Stirlingsays said:
It would be just another way of getting Nato troops there......widening the war has always been their only chance outside of Russian economic collapse.
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Technically NATO should be supporting fellow NATO members Hungary and Slovakia against Ukraine.

But then again, expecting the western establishment to keep its word on anything was always naïve, as most of Eastern Europe now realises
The people who turn a blind eye to baby torture probably aren't going to be losing sleep about keeping their promises regarding Slovakia's territorial sovereignty.
 
Ouzo Dan said:
Thought I'd ask AI,

Seems it should trigger article 4 however it goes on to say there is considerable grey arey as NATO have recently expanded the definition of what can trigger article 5 to include hybrid warfare, attacking a countries economy with the downstream intent of harming it's military is included, from what I understand the expansion around definitions is deliberately vague, we can't have our great leaders make decisive action can we?

You're all free to decide if destroying a NATO members entire oil supply with everything that comes downstream of that is an act of war or not.

I personally think it does.
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I am sure you are technically, legally and ethically correct.
But the west doesn't give a s*** about that stuff nowadays.
 
Ouzo Dan said:
Thought I'd ask AI,

Seems it should trigger article 4 however it goes on to say there is considerable grey arey as NATO have recently expanded the definition of what can trigger article 5 to include hybrid warfare, attacking a countries economy with the downstream intent of harming it's military is included, from what I understand the expansion around definitions is deliberately vague, we can't have our great leaders make decisive action can we?

You're all free to decide if destroying a NATO members entire oil supply with everything that comes downstream of that is an act of war or not.

I personally think it does.
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It's the EU who have exempted Hungary and Slovakia from sanctions.
 
chris123 said:
It's the EU who have exempted Hungary and Slovakia from sanctions.
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Are we all talking about the same thing here?
Hungary and Slovakia are of course in the EU and in NATO.
EU (as an economic/political partnership) can apply sanctions, or give exemptions to member states.
That EU exemption for Slovakia and Hungary no doubt angered Ukraine and led to their actions against Hungary and Slovakia.
The Ukrainian actions should technically trigger NATOs Article 4 as a military alliance obliged to come to the aid of fellow members Hungary and Slovakia, regardless of whether they are in the EU or not. The EU has no say in that.

But at the end of the day, despite all the technicalities, legalities and past agreements, we all know that both NATO and the EU will sell Hungary and Slovakia down the river without a second thought if Davos and the WEF tell them to.
 
McAhuna said:
Are we all talking about the same thing here?
Hungary and Slovakia are of course in the EU and in NATO.
EU (as an economic/political partnership) can apply sanctions, or give exemptions to member states.
That EU exemption for Slovakia and Hungary no doubt angered Ukraine and led to their actions against Hungary and Slovakia.
The Ukrainian actions should technically trigger NATOs Article 4 as a military alliance obliged to come to the aid of fellow members Hungary and Slovakia, regardless of whether they are in the EU or not. The EU has no say in that.

But at the end of the day, despite all the technicalities, legalities and past agreements, we all know that both NATO and the EU will sell Hungary and Slovakia down the river without a second thought if Davos and the WEF tell them to.
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The exemption has been in place since 2022
 
chris123 said:
The exemption has been in place since 2022
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Irrelevant to whether NATO should honour its NATO Article 4/5 obligations.

Hungary may also have an opt-out from providing support for Ukraine. But that is also irrelevant. NATO article 5 is still triggered if Ukraine engages in hybrid warfare, or attacks the economies of NATO members, including Hungary and Slovakia.
 
McAhuna said:
Irrelevant to whether NATO should honour its NATO Article 4/5 obligations.

Hungary may also have an opt-out from providing support for Ukraine. But that is also irrelevant. NATO article 5 is still triggered if Ukraine engages in hybrid warfare, or attacks the economies of NATO members, including Hungary and Slovakia.
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I was answering Ouzos post.
 
chris123 said:
I was answering Ouzos post.
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So was I.
His AI research explains when NATO Article 4 and 5 are triggered in the event of attack on NATO states and how 'attack' is defined.
Past exemptions from Russian sanctions (EU) or Ukraine support (NATO) are irrelevant to the conditions that trigger NATO Article 4 and 5.
 
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