Definition of stupid, taking a gun and confronting law enforcement

[Stirlingsays]

Are you taking the piss ?

Ashley Babbit was trying to force her way through a door that was being smashed to pieces by a mob ,trying to gain access to the house of reps .

Walking up stairs ! Seriously !

Maybe the officer fired at Babbit because he became ‘ alarmed ‘ 😂

You are so far down the rabbit hole you might pop up in Australia.

It's true that she was shot while attempting to climb through a shattered window.

She was not struggling with law enforcement.

She was unarmed.

You're the one who shouldn't be sleeping soundly Mr Double Standard.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

And that really is the cusp of it. I don't understand why people think it's a good idea to impede law enforcement operations, resist arrest and bring a gun (legally or not).

You don't think it's possible to think it's a bad idea to impede law enforcement and bring a gun, but to also think that doesn't justify being shot and killed?

Because I'd suggest that's the majority held view on this matter.

 

[HKOwen]

We're talking about your ongoing struggle with logic - if you could apply the statement to every single shooting, it's just meaningless noise - it's adding nothing to the conversation and it's certainly doing nothing to justify the actions of the officer(s).

Again, if being stupid was a justification for being shot, that might matter. That's probably not a policy I'd be encouraging if I were you.

So you're suggesting the poster is stupid which per Dan H is abuse...MODS

 

[HKOwen]

Is it less likely he would have been shot if he was not packing a gun? I would suggest yes

 

[eaglesdare]

You don't think it's possible to think it's a bad idea to impede law enforcement and bring a gun, but to also think that doesn't justify being shot and killed?

Because I'd suggest that's the majority held view on this matter.

Resisting arrest plus having a gun brings a high risk escalation. Officers aren't required to wait and see if the gun is used against them. Impeding arrests endangers everyone.

A tragedy that could have been completely avoided.

 

[eaglesdare]

Is it less likely he would have been shot if he was not packing a gun? I would suggest yes

My opinion is that they all seen a gun on him. One officer went over and took the gun out of the eye sight of his colleagues. The suspect maybe went to draw it or the the other officers got spooked in a high tense situation and then opened fire.

Obviously it's speculation on my part but I'm sure we will find out what really happened.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You don't seem to be able to grasp that foolish ideas are not a justification for being shot.

Off you go rambling again - can't land a blow on the topic so you're talking about Venezuela and Jews 🤣.

So easy.

A symptom of allowing large numbers of foreign criminals into your country. First you do that, and then you encourage brainwashed idiots to put themselves in harms way so you can swing a few votes come election time.

The bigger picture.

If the ICE agent who did the shooting is potentially guilty of a crime then he should be tried. It's that simple.

Now let's ask ourselves why you are so keen to focus on the shooting.

IS it because you are a great humanitarian? Nah. You don't care if Jews died in their thousands, or Iranians come to think of it, so it's only when it's Palestinians or you can blame Trump.

You are so completely and utterly boring and predictable. Just another lefty being a lefty.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Resisting arrest plus having a gun brings a high risk escalation. Officers aren't required to wait and see if the gun is used against them. Impeding arrests endangers everyone.

A tragedy that could have been completely avoided.

No, they're not, and I'm not aware of anyone who has made such a claim.

But officers are required to believe there is an imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death in order to use deadly force.

All of the other noise about what he was doing and why he was there and how stupid it was is completely irrelevant - the only consideration in whether the killing is justified is whether the officers can reasonably believe that an unarmed man, on the floor, surrounded by armed officers, poses an imminent threat of serious harm or death.

 

[eaglesdare]

No, they're not, and I'm not aware of anyone who has made such a claim.

But officers are required to believe there is an imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death in order to use deadly force.

All of the other noise about what he was doing and why he was there and how stupid it was is completely irrelevant - the only consideration in whether the killing is justified is whether the officers can reasonably believe that an unarmed man, on the floor, surrounded by armed officers, poses an imminent threat of serious harm or death.

Precisely 👍

 

[CPFCSaturn]

A symptom of allowing large numbers of foreign criminals into your country. First you do that, and then you encourage brainwashed idiots to put themselves in harms way so you can swing a few votes come election time.

The bigger picture.

If the ICE agent who did the shooting is guilty of a crime then he should be tried. It's that simple.

Now let's ask ourselves why you are so keen to focus on the shooting.

IS it because you are a great humanitarian? Nah. You don't care if Jews did in their thousands, or Iranians come to think of it, so it's only when it's Palestinians or you can blame Trump.

You are so completely and utterly boring and predictable. Just another lefty being a lefty.

In what way am I 'so keen to focus on the shooting'? I've probably made less than 10 posts in this thread, most of which have been today because it's a slow day at work. I couldn't say 100%, but I'm not even sure I've posted at all about this topic before yesterday. Nor am I particularly involved in the US Politics thread and 'blaming Trump'.

So as ever, you're talking complete imagined bollocks, because you've been taken apart on yet another topic.

You call me boring and predictable while you regurgitate the same tabloid-inspired guff dozens and dozens of times a week.

 

[Frenchaigle]

What information do you think an investigation could uncover that would justify the shooting?

Depends if the administration mark there own homework or it’s fully independent.

With so many Rupublican and Democrat appointed judges ,how will it be unbiased.

Their democracy is flawed and it’s really apparent now .

 

[Frenchaigle]

In what way am I 'so keen to focus on the shooting'? I've probably made less than 10 posts in this thread, most of which have been today because it's a slow day at work. I couldn't say 100%, but I'm not even sure I've posted at all about this topic before yesterday. Nor am I particularly involved in the US Politics thread and 'blaming Trump'.

So as ever, you're talking complete imagined bollocks, because you've been taken apart on yet another topic.

You call me boring and predictable while you regurgitate the same tabloid-inspired guff dozens and dozens of times a week.

Are you being paid to write this? 😂

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Depends if the administration mark there own homework or it’s fully independent.

With so many Rupublican and Democrat appointed judges ,how will it be unbiased.

Their democracy is flawed and it’s really apparent now .

Yeah quite - point one is exactly that; given how politicised everything is in America, I don't have much faith that whatever investigation takes place is going to be particularly neutral.

But secondly, given the availability of so much footage and imagery of what happened, I'm just interested to speculate as to what could be uncovered in an investigation that would justify the shooting.

 

[HKOwen]

My opinion is that they all seen a gun on him. One officer went over and took the gun out of the eye sight of his colleagues. The suspect maybe went to draw it or the the other officers got spooked in a high tense situation and then opened fire.

Obviously it's speculation on my part but I'm sure we will find out what really happened.

It is possible that some of the ICE agents did not know the gun had been taken and they just saw a hand going to a holster that seconds earlier had a gun in it.

In this scenario they could have been in fear of being shot themselves

 

[Eagleman13]

In what way am I 'so keen to focus on the shooting'? I've probably made less than 10 posts in this thread, most of which have been today because it's a slow day at work. I couldn't say 100%, but I'm not even sure I've posted at all about this topic before yesterday. Nor am I particularly involved in the US Politics thread and 'blaming Trump'.

So as ever, you're talking complete imagined bollocks, because you've been taken apart on yet another topic.

You call me boring and predictable while you regurgitate the same tabloid-inspired guff dozens and dozens of times a week.

17, just helping you out 😉

 

[Stirlingsays]

No, they're not, and I'm not aware of anyone who has made such a claim.

But officers are required to believe there is an imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death in order to use deadly force.

Like with Ashley Babbit?

The point has already been made that he could have been reaching for their guns. We simply don't know at this stage.

All of the other noise about what he was doing and why he was there and how stupid it was is completely irrelevant - the only consideration in whether the killing is justified is whether the officers can reasonably believe that an unarmed man, on the floor, surrounded by armed officers, poses an imminent threat of serious harm or death.

Nope, someone's actions do factor into a case such as this, someone's behaivour effects the nature of the response to them.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yeah quite - point one is exactly that; given how politicised everything is in America, I don't have much faith that whatever investigation takes place is going to be particularly neutral.

But secondly, given the availability of so much footage and imagery of what happened, I'm just interested to speculate as to what could be uncovered in an investigation that would justify the shooting.

Is this you not focusing on the shooting again?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Like with Ashley Babbit?

The point has already been made that he could have been reaching for their guns. We simply don't know at this stage.



Nope, someone's actions do factor into a case such as this, someone's behaivour effects the nature of the response to them.

Just to be clear on this, is your view that the killing of Ashley Babbit was not justified, but this one was?

I don’t think it’s credible to suggest a floored man surrounded and covered by multiple armed officers could have realistically been at risk of grabbing someone’s gun.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Just to be clear on this, is your view that the killing of Ashley Babbit was not justified, but this one was?

I don’t think it’s credible to suggest a floored man surrounded and covered by multiple armed officers could have realistically been at risk of grabbing someone’s gun.

Do try to understand that in situations where there are firearms, adrenalin flowing, a degree of animosity and a keen sense of self preservation, things like this are bound to happen.
This is something that could have been avoided had the previous administration prevented large amounts of criminals entering the country.

Has this tragic event stopped the leftist loons from getting in the faces of ICE agents? Nope.

Would any charges against an ICE officer bring the guy back to life? Nope.

Is the Democrat Mayor of Minnesota complicit in creating this situation? You bet he is.

 

[Spindle]

Yes 7 sitting on him is incorrect, 7 around him and 3 maybe 4 holding/ Kneeling on him while one removes his weapon and another ( now two apparently) shoots him 10 times in the back .

In the OP Phil barber reckons one of the shooters is ‘alarmed at something’ not sure how he comes to this conclusion. Sounds like he is trying to justify this killing .
It’s also possible to theorise that the officer waited till the victim was disarmed before shooting ,you can see a shiny object being removed before shots ring out .

Arguing about how many people are sitting on him is splitting hairs and really is beside the point in the grand scheme of things .
If 3 /4 agents with another 3 circling can’t restrain someone on the ground belly down ,then perhaps they do need some training .

If some on here are happy with how this whole incident went down that’s for their conscience.
Mine is fine I sleep well .

Just wondering if you think he has any accountability in this whatsoever?

I dunno, but in a country rife with guns and with 50000 gun deaths a year that going armed and hands on with cops might be something within my control