Trump announces plan to hit UK, Denmark and other European countries with extra tariffs over Greenland

Stirlingsays said:
If democracy is allowed to flow without interference in Europe (which makes your point ironic) then Europe won't have liberal leaders either.

Whatever happens pragmatism will probably be the rule if the right are in charge.

We have seen liberals interfering with democracy in Germany, France and Starmer banning elections and talking about stopping right wing voices from reaching their audiences.

Whether Trump looks to suspend democracy or Europe does is both up in the air.
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democracy ? you forgot to mention all the chicanery around the Irish Presidential Election. A popular Conservative candidate ( Maria Steen ) was kept off the ballot paper. In protest, the irish voters did a record number of spoiled votes...over 200,000. Net outcome ? we now have a Hard left President sitting at the Presidential palace waving a Palestine flag.

Democracy seems to have been subverted in most of The West. Trump is the exception.
 
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PalazioVecchio said:
democracy ? you forgot to mention all the chicanery around the Irish Presidential Election. A popular candidate ( Maria Steen ) was kept off the ballot paper. In protest, the irish did a record number of spoiled votes...over 200,000. Net outcome ? we now have a Hard left President sitting at the Presidential palace waving a Palestine flag.

Democracy seems to have been subverted in most of The West. Trump is the exception.
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I spoiled my vote. I was so annoyed they blocked her. In the name of democracy.

Don't forget what they did to Le Penn in france either.
 
HKOwen said:
Stocks all back to where they were pretty much, anyone who follows Trump's actions knows it's usually an all guns blazing opening then a sensible conclusion, the markets know this.

I don't know what relationships have actually been harmed, judging by the Board of Peace going on now there may be some realignments.

Trump is showing that almost everyone is dependent on the US in one way or another, which if true , then don't be so rude to the POTUS . If you are then expect a reaction.

As a country we have no permanent friends or permanent enemies, we have events that change the status quo.
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To a certain extent I can agree with you.

But not when Trump threatens Denmark militarily.

He should have never have suggested that he would attack European troops in Greenland.

Personally I think bonds between people do matter......I'm against brother wars more than other types, especially wars of choice.
 
PalazioVecchio said:
democracy ? you forgot to mention all the chicanery around the Irish Presidential Election. A popular candidate ( Maria Steen ) was kept off the ballot paper. In protest, the irish did a record number of spoiled votes...over 200,000. Net outcome ? we now have a Hard left President sitting at the Presidential palace waving a Palestine flag.

Democracy seems to have been subverted in most of The West. Trump is the exception.
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Apologies.
 
Stirlingsays said:
To a certain extent I can agree with you.

But not when Trump threatens Denmark militarily.

He should have never have suggested that he would attack European troops in Greenland.

Personally I think bonds between people do matter......I'm against brother wars more than other types, especially wars of choice.
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Did he really tho? I'm trying to find evidence that he actually did and not media spin? 🤔
 
HKOwen said:
Stocks all back to where they were pretty much, anyone who follows Trump's actions knows it's usually an all guns blazing opening then a sensible conclusion, the markets know this.

I don't know what relationships have actually been harmed, judging by the Board of Peace going on now there may be some realignments.

Trump is showing that almost everyone is dependent on the US in one way or another, which if true , then don't be so rude to the POTUS . If you are then expect a reaction.

As a country we have no permanent friends or permanent enemies, we have events that change the status quo.
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The market was a loud voice I think.
 
eaglesdare said:
Ah yes you are right. I checked it out. He's never been a good politician Trump, he has no filter 🤣
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Being a marmite politician works when your opposition puts up terrible candidates and you can point at their obvious weaknesses. Trump is very good at being direct and that helps cut through the bullshit which most of us are tired of with western politicians.....They rarely deal with the reality most are dealing with.

But in the global space when the audience is only leaders of nations, then diplomacy is more important.

On that score he deserves criticism because all he has is real estate bully boy tactics....there's a time to walk softy and a time for the big stick....he just has a big stick.

It's not the way to go.
 
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Trump: The Art of the Deal: Amazon.co.uk: Trump, Donald, Schwartz, Tony: 9780399594496: Books

Buy Trump: The Art of the Deal Illustrated by Trump, Donald, Schwartz, Tony (ISBN: 9780399594496) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
amzn.eu

Although I have not read it yet it seems that the book talks about how he describes how he always asks for significantly more than what he wants so he can negotiate to what he wants.

Every couple of months he negotiates some deal in this exact same way and everyone loses their minds 🤣
 
eaglesdare said:

Trump: The Art of the Deal: Amazon.co.uk: Trump, Donald, Schwartz, Tony: 9780399594496: Books

Buy Trump: The Art of the Deal Illustrated by Trump, Donald, Schwartz, Tony (ISBN: 9780399594496) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
amzn.eu

Although I have not read it yet it seems that the book talks about how he describes how he always asks for significantly more than what he wants so he can negotiate to what he wants.

Every couple of months he negotiates some deal in this exact same way and everyone loses their minds 🤣
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Blair did the same thing but just in a more intelligent way.

Talking past the deal.....telling people that something is inevitable and that all that remains is filling in the details so that is all he's willing to negotiate on.

It existed long before Trump of course, he just made it stand out in the liberal world order where they all demand group think....Not that most of the European right agreed with how far Trump went on Greenland.

Of course, 'talking past the deal' only reliably works if you're ultimately in the position to carry out those threats....and that in turn you can afford to lose those people as friends.

Blair did far more damage to the UK than Trump could ever hope to achieve.
 
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From what I’ve seen the leaders of the parties on the ‘far right’ in Europe all seem to be against the way Trump has acted, so any suggestion that it is all some woke leftism pushback is wrong. I heard the Danish and Greenland leaders saying treaties were already in place and had been for decades and they had had zero contract from the uSA asking for increased involvement on the ground. Of course they could both be bullshitting but it was the German guy who seems to have smoothed it all over.
Trump is pissing off lots of people across the spectrum.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Being a marmite politician works when your opposition puts up terrible candidates and you can point at their obvious weaknesses. Trump is very good at being direct and that helps cut through the bullshit which most of us are tired of with western politicians.....They rarely deal with the reality most are dealing with.

But in the global space when the audience is only leaders of nations, then diplomacy is more important.

On that score he deserves criticism because all he has is real estate bully boy tactics....there's a time to walk softy and a time for the big stick....he just has a big stick.

It's not the way to go.
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Or the twiglet business.
 
Stirlingsays said:
But in the global space when the audience is only leaders of nations, then diplomacy is more important.

On that score he deserves criticism because all he has is real estate bully boy tactics....there's a time to walk softy and a time for the big stick....he just has a big stick.
Click to expand...

On a train you can only ask a fecker, to turn down his music , so many times. Thereafter you can either a) suffer in non-silence b) get off the carriage or c) do a Millwall.

Trump is all Millwall and that's fair enough. Dealing with Macron, Keir, the Irish PM, and Ursula Von de L...... little else is effective.


Here is Keir saying he will not yield. Just before he yielded.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer says he ‘will not yield’ to Trump pressure over Greenland

In his most hostile language yet, the prime minister said the future of Greenland should be decided by Denmark and Greenland
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
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PalazioVecchio said:
On a train you can only ask a fecker, to turn down his music , so many times. Thereafter you can either a) suffer in non-silence b) get off the carriage or c) do a Millwall.

Trump is all Millwall and that's fair enough. Dealing with Macron, Keir, the Irish PM, and Ursula Von de L...... little else is effective.


Here is Keir saying he will not yield. Just before he yielded.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer says he ‘will not yield’ to Trump pressure over Greenland

In his most hostile language yet, the prime minister said the future of Greenland should be decided by Denmark and Greenland
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Starmer is a spineless word sald, one wonders if he actually realises what he is saying
 
HKOwen said:
Starmer is a spineless word sald, one wonders if he actually realises what he is saying
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It's really nothing to do with him yielding or not. What he does or says is insignificant. All he's doing is alienating Trump. Denmark will not repay him anything, nor will the EU. Likely to be pandering to the left of his party and thinking this stance is a vote winner - when in reality all who will pay for this are the people and consumers, once again. Really is best just to stay out of it.
Probably best to have something to back up words like "won't yield". Won't yield what? Dig some trenches and die for Greenland. Why even pay one penny more for goods because of Greenland. It shouldn't affect Britain whatsoever. Did the Falklands affect Denmark? Or the Chagos Islands? A load of rubbish.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Blair did the same thing but just in a more intelligent way.

Talking past the deal.....telling people that something is inevitable and that all that remains is filling in the details so that is all he's willing to negotiate on.

It existed long before Trump of course, he just made it stand out in the liberal world order where they all demand group think....Not that most of the European right agreed with how far Trump went on Greenland.

Of course, 'talking past the deal' only reliably works if you're ultimately in the position to carry out those threats....and that in turn you can afford to lose those people as friends.

Blair did far more damage to the UK than Trump could ever hope to achieve.
Click to expand...
Trump realised some time ago that the European economies are generally screwed and their leaders mostly part of the globalist club whose instincts are all personal self protection.

It matters not at all what the personal relationships are on an individual basis.

Trump knows that the USD is mightier than the gun so to speak, he can push trough his agenda using economic weapons. He needs to balance the interests of US business at the same time which is tricky.

Like him and his methods or not, he is generally effective.
 
Zelenksy in his press conference earlier: "Europe loves to discuss the future, but avoids taking action today."

"Instead of taking the lead in defending freedom worldwide, especially when America's focus shifts elsewhere, Europe looks lost, trying to convince the US president to change."

news.sky.com

Volodymyr Zelenskyy: Europe can't act without US leadership and is stuck in a Groundhog Day-style doom loop, Ukrainian president says

Comparing its preference for talk over action to Bill Murray's comedy classic, Mr Zelenskyy says Europe is a "fragmented kaleidoscope of small and middle powers", endlessly talking about what needs to be done, without doing it.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

He's not wrong. If you want results from the EU leaders you gotta act tough and give them a good kick up the backside. (Threat of Tarrifs)
 
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