War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

As nothing of this long winded diatribe addresses the actual point, why didn’t you simply agree that you would prefer to live under Putin and save us all a lot of time?

Criticism of me is neither the subject nor does it explain how any deal, at any time, involving Putin can possibly be trusted.

If Europe felt under real threat from Russia they would have defence spending at about five percent since 2022.

There is talk and then there are actions......One can be lied about, the other not so much.

Yes, Europe does eventually come to a deal with Putin and no it's unlikely to be as good as that offered right now and a huge damn sight worse than what was on offer in 2022.

The only bright spot on the horizon is that in a few years most of Europe will be ruled by the right and peace with Russia will be far more realistic.

 

[McAhuna]

If Europe felt under real threat from Russia they would have defence spending at about five percent since 2022.

There is talk and then their are actions......One can be lied about, the other not so much.

Yes, Europe does eventually come to a deal with Putin and no it's unlikely to be as good as that offered right now and a huge damn sight worse than what was on offer in 2022.

The only bright spot on the horizon is that in a few years most of Europe will be ruled by the right and peace with Russia will be far more realistic.

Spot on. Most of the European nations are nothing short of pathetic.

• Pointing the finger at Brexit, Trump, just about anyone, for being 'far-right'. Pointing the finger at anyone except the literal Nazis they are funding in Ukraine.
• Whining they are about to be attacked, while spending next to nothing on defence.
• Belittling and mocking America, while demanding that America come to save them in the unlikely event of an attack
• Demanding 'self-determination' when it suits them in Kosovo, while happy to see other independence movements crushed and thousands slaughtered (Donbass).
• Preaching about democracy while ignoring unhelpful election results, persecuting election officials (Catalonia) and even denying the right of democratically elected presidents to take office (Romania).
• Talking the talk about curbing immigration, while punishing Hungary and North Macedonia for building a wall to prevent it.
• Cheering war and waving Ukrainian flags from the safety of home, while watching Ukrainians get slaughtered by the thousands, and not allowing them to make peace.
• Filling their own militaries with DEI/LGBTQ guff. Persecuting and imprisoning patriots in their own lands, then demanding the same demographic sign-up/enlist to the military to sacrifice themselves sorting out the mess their governments created.
  
  

 

[McAhuna]

Looks like we'll be getting the first nuke.

At this point it kind of feels like we deserve it

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Looks like we'll be getting the first nuke.

At this point it kind of feels like we deserve it
View attachment 2416

Only if Putin wants to see Moscow vaporized. And no,'we' don't deserve it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Only if Putin wants to see Moscow vaporized. And no,'we' don't deserve it.

The last tests on our deterrent failed.

Oh and I've rather not have my family destroyed over a dick measuring contest.....If you are wrong you don't get anymore negative consequences than anyone else because we are all dead.

Over a fecking war between slavs.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Looks like we'll be getting the first nuke.

At this point it kind of feels like we deserve it

The population have certainly been sold that putting ourselves where we are now was somehow the right decision.

It wasn't....We have wasted billions on a lost war.....and you are right, if things go south we will certainly be targeted first.

We can at least say we argued against this insanity.

I'm not against wars, I'm against stupid ones.....which is about 80 percent of them. I don't like being used as possible expendable bait.

I like winning.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

If Europe felt under real threat from Russia they would have defence spending at about five percent since 2022.

There is talk and then their are actions......One can be lied about, the other not so much.

Yes, Europe does eventually come to a deal with Putin and no it's unlikely to be as good as that offered right now and a huge damn sight worse than what was on offer in 2022.

The only bright spot on the horizon is that in a few years most of Europe will be ruled by the right and peace with Russia will be far more realistic.

Only the wilfully ignorant believe that anyone comes to a deal with Putin. He doesn’t do deals he keeps. Whether in 2022, now or in the future. He uses deals to advance his aims. You only deter Putin through collective strength.

The reason he is interfering in western politics and supporting the right is for precisely the reasons you describe. They would collaborate with him and enable him to achieve his objectives more easily.

Which is a very strong reason why their current upswing needs to be stamped on and extinguished.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The last tests on our deterrent failed.

Oh and I've rather not have my family destroyed over a dick measuring contest.....If you are wrong you don't get anymore negative consequences than anyone else because we are all dead.

Over a fecking war between slavs.

It isn’t. It’s a war by Slavs. In which other Slavs are our proxies.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It isn’t. It’s a war by Slavs. In which other Slavs are our proxies.

Your proxies, not mine.

I don't engage in losing wars because of 'feels' and virtue signalling.

People with your politics are a disaster.

You should be paying my energy bill.

 

[McAhuna]

It isn’t. It’s a war by Slavs. In which other Slavs are our proxies.

It's funny how often the progressive mask slips.

"Slavs are our proxies" - You mean to be blown to pieces on freezing fields of Luhansk, on our behalf.

You may as well have said "Slavs are our slaves". It would arguably have been less offensive.

 

[McAhuna]

The population have certainly been sold that putting ourselves where we are now was somehow the right decision.

It wasn't....We have wasted billions on a lost war.....and you are right, if things go south we will certainly be targeted first.

We can at least say we argued against this insanity.

I'm not against wars, I'm against stupid ones.....which is about 80 percent of them. I don't like being used as possible expendable bait.

I like winning.

I'm more against 'wrong' wars than 'stupid' ones.

You could argue that the Poles and Dutch were 'stupid' to even bother trying to hold off Nazi invasion in 1939/40. But you have to commend them for at least trying.

Ukraine is just wrong (and stupid). We are basically fighting for a coalition of Neo-Nazis and the Military-Industrial complex.

 

[McAhuna]

Your proxies, not mine.

I don't engage in losing wars because of 'feels' and virtue signalling.

People with your politics are a disaster.

You should be paying my energy bill.

He should be in a trench in the Donbass, preaching DEI and LGBTQ to his slaves, while dodging drones at the same time.

Then his wages should be used to pay our energy bills.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The last tests on our deterrent failed.

Oh and I've rather not have my family destroyed over a dick measuring contest.....If you are wrong you don't get anymore negative consequences than anyone else because we are all dead.

Over a fecking war between slavs.

It won't be our nukes. It will likely be US nukes on British soil.

More importantly. Putin can say what he likes, but Russia cannot defeat the West in a conventional war.
It would be the height of insanity for either side to start a full scale conflict because the cost to each side both financially and in terms of lives would be unimaginable, and the final result would likely be the end of everything. I can't see either side surrendering.

The West must ensure a settlement while Ukraine still exists as an independent nation. That would be a win.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It won't be our nukes. It will likely be US nukes on British soil.

You seriously think the US are going to go to 'earth death' over us? In 2025?

In an unprovoked attack....just maybe....But the left and social liberals have opened up a considerable cultural divide between Britain and the US....You see the British lefties on social media oozing hate over Trump...Our Corny friend is a case in point....You think the GOP are going out to bat and die for the likes of him?

Not something I'd like to risk especially since the US have just spent much capital and effort getting out of this war........ All while our own PM and Europe's leaders have frustrated Trump over signing anything.

Getting fried because social liberals can't stand losing to Putin? Not for me mate.

I can't see us a risk of nuclear unless Europe sent 200, 000 troops over there and somehow managed to push Russia out with conventional warfare.....That would mean the end of Putin and co and Russia would probably start to break up....he'd probably nuke then.

It would also mean a lot of British body bags for a foreign nations borders when the nation here doesn't give a damn about its own......Whitey going out to fight slavs while he gets replaced by the third world in his own country.....sick.

Europe's leaders made the stupid decisions over this war.....Even a one percent risk of my family dying for these clowns isn't on my Christmas list.

More importantly. Putin can say what he likes, but Russia cannot defeat the West in a conventional war.
It would be the height of insanity for either side to start a full scale conflict because the cost to each side both financially and in terms of lives would be unimaginable, and the final result would likely be the end of everything. I can't see either side surrendering.

The West must ensure a settlement while Ukraine still exists as an independent nation. That would be a win.

I agree.....except for the last paragraph.

I resent paying billions upon billions (and if Russia get their stolen funds back much much more) to keep a foreign country afloat because of policies I never agreed with in the first place.

All the people who supported the government and the EU in this nuttery should be the ones paying for Ukraine.....I only ever agreed with humanitarian aid and for an early peace agreement......I made the common sense argument time and time again.

 

[silvertop]

I'm more against 'wrong' wars than 'stupid' ones.

You could argue that the Poles and Dutch were 'stupid' to even bother trying to hold off Nazi invasion in 1939/40. But you have to commend them for at least trying.

Ukraine is just wrong (and stupid). We are basically fighting for a coalition of Neo-Nazis and the Military-Industrial complex.

Possibly? The Danes folded without a shot. The German garrison force arrived in Copenhagen by train. The Danes battened down for years. The war ended. The garrison left. And the nation was left more or less intact with far less dept and rebuild than those who stood firm.

So for those on here like you who advocate appeasement with Putin, there is reason to support that position.

 

[McAhuna]

Possibly? The Danes folded without a shot. The German garrison force arrived in Copenhagen by train. The Danes battened down for years. The war ended. The garrison left. And the nation was left more or less intact with far less dept and rebuild than those who stood firm.

So for those on here like you who advocate appeasement with Putin, there is reason to support that position.

Err ......I didn't mention the Danes ....or use the word 'possibly'

But since you have, it's not true what you say.
True, it wasn't an Eastern Front 4 year bloodbath (which some of us seem to relish).
But plenty of shots were fired and a fair few on both sides lost their lives in the fighting
You should watch the Danish film 'April 9th Invasion Day'

 

[Stirlingsays]

Possibly? The Danes folded without a shot. The German garrison force arrived in Copenhagen by train. The Danes battened down for years. The war ended. The garrison left. And the nation was left more or less intact with far less dept and rebuild than those who stood firm.

So for those on here like you who advocate appeasement with Putin, there is reason to support that position.

It's a redundant argument as we aren't going to be invaded by Russia....anyone who actually believes that needs another brain cell to double their count.

Nuked....A small chance if things really go wrong.....Attacked infrastructure? Probably if the war carries on. Numerous body bags for no gain, sure, if they are stupid enough to do it.

As for 'appeasement', such an easy word for somebody else's war. It wasn't a war I ever agreed with getting into....the 'escalation' or 'appeasement' would be for those who supported the path taken.

The opportunity for Europe's leaders to fight Russia has been there since it started in 2022. They declined every opportunity wanting the US to do it. I don't see you travelling to fill a trench or sending your family's sons.....but you use the word 'appeasement' like you're willing to suffer loss over this war.

But my guest, it's not my war.

 

[McAhuna]

I am starting to think it was deliberate state ploy to focus so much on the 1930s in school GCSE syllabuses.
Almost a set up, to brainwash the gullible population into always choosing war over peace ....because of Neville Chamberlain and stuff..... the only historic figure we must learn from or something.

Funny how other historic lessons, even from the same period, are conveniently forgotten, such as:

* Germany's historic habit of seeking to dominate the politics of other European countries, and the consequences it leads to.
* The resilience of the Russian character, most dangerous when they appear to be at their weakest, and the unwinnable nature of wars on the Russian front.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I am starting to think it was deliberate state ploy to focus so much on the 1930s in school GCSE syllabuses.
Almost a set up, to brainwash the gullible population into always choosing war over peace ....because of Neville Chamberlain and stuff..... the only historic figure we must learn from or something.

Funny how other historic lessons, even from the same period, are conveniently forgotten, such as:

* Germany's historic habit of seeking to dominate the politics of other European countries, and the consequences it leads to.
* The resilience of the Russian character, most dangerous when they appear to be at their weakest, and the unwinnable nature of wars on the Russian front.

Never underestimate a neo/social liberal's ability to feck everything up.

It's like being ruled by HR on red rag week.

As for the crap they teach our youth about our history.....and I know because I had to fill in and teach history lessons on occasion, it's pretty depressing.

These people set the country up for failure at every turn and then finger point and blame those who had no power and never took the decisions.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You seriously think the US are going to go to 'earth death' over us? In 2025?

In an unprovoked attack....just maybe....But the left and social liberals have opened up a considerable cultural divide between Britain and the US....You see the British lefties on social media oozing hate over Trump...Our Corny friend is a case in point....You think the GOP are going out to bat and die for the likes of him?

Not something I'd like to risk especially since the US have just spent much capital and effort getting out of this war........ All while our own PM and Europe's leaders have frustrated Trump over signing anything.

Getting fried because social liberals can't stand losing to Putin? Not for me mate.

I can't see us a risk of nuclear unless Europe sent 200, 000 troops over there and somehow managed to push Russia out with conventional warfare.....That would mean the end of Putin and co and Russia would probably start to break up....he'd probably nuke then.

It would also mean a lot of British body bags for a foreign nations borders when the nation here doesn't give a damn about its own......Whitey going out to fight slavs while he gets replaced by the third world in his own country.....sick.

Europe's leaders made the stupid decisions over this war.....Even a one percent risk of my family dying for these clowns isn't on my Christmas list.



I agree.....except for the last paragraph.

I resent paying billions upon billions (and if Russia get their stolen funds back much much more) to keep a foreign country afloat because of policies I never agreed with in the first place.

All the people who supported the government and the EU in this nuttery should be the ones paying for Ukraine.....I only ever agreed with humanitarian aid and for an early peace agreement......I made the common sense argument time and time again.

I don't see a successful nuclear strike on any NATO country happening without retaliation. A single nuke unanswered would only mean more coming our way.

My hope is that Europe is playing bad cop while Trump tries to end the conflict. The difficulty is that Ukraine is losing the war and is in an increasingly weak position to negotiate. The West cannot show weakness, but at the same time cannot escalate. A tricky position.

Either Putin settles and we dial everything back, or Ukraine falls, followed by a huge build up of hardware and troops either side of the NATO borders. We will then be spending a fortune on military upgrade and likely bringing back national service. Europe will become home to thousands more US troops to back up the local forces and we will be in Cold War x10.

Putin could go early and attack Poland, but that would potentially leave Russia open to the full force of US capability. I cannot see the US leaving Europe undefended. What ever the politics, any conventional war would find its way back to European soil at some stage. Defending it early would give the US time to wind up its war machine.
If it goes nuclear, we are all dead anyway. Problem over. Nobody wins.

Do we really think that Putin would send us back to the stone age just to prove a point?