COVID Inquiry findings

Just out of interest - did you have a smallpox or polio vaccine? Vaccine eradicated those awful diseases. And as regards Covid - you might have exercised your right not to have it but millions did which might have had a beneficial effect for everyone. Wine is very good by the way!
Just a bit of debating advice. Try debating what I have written. I was not discussing about smallpox or polio. You use these to deflect and are strawman arguments.

Like I said, you can't debate. It ain't hard to see. Lol
 
You misspelled c’ant!

Typical loon. Can't debate so brings it down to level of childish bickering.

We provided thoughtful and sourced arguments backed by data and historical precedent, yet all you can muster is name calling and silliness. Classic deflection from someone who knows their position crumbles under scrutiny. 👍
 
Typical loon. Can't debate so brings it down to level of childish bickering.

We provided thoughtful and sourced arguments backed by data and historical precedent, yet all you can muster is name calling and silliness. Classic deflection from someone who knows their position crumbles under scrutiny. 👍
Umm - I don’t know who your commented is directed at. If it is me the I will just live with it!
 
Not as much as it's hyped.....Lockdown didn't last as long as some think either.

There are geographic reasons why New Zealand initially did well.

Far less densely populated for one.

Regardless, the whole concept of lockdowns for an illness that has a five percent chance of killing the elderly is economic madness.

Sweden chose the least damaging route and the silence by the media and establishment since speaks volumes.

It was said by a few at the time and they weren't lying.
The main reason NZ did well was they stopped incoming flights from the badly hit areas, while the UK allowed flights from all and sundrie to continue unchecked, nothing to do with location, you cant walk to Auckland
 
Typical loon. Can't debate so brings it down to level of childish bickering.

We provided thoughtful and sourced arguments backed by data and historical precedent, yet all you can muster is name calling and silliness. Classic deflection from someone who knows their position crumbles under scrutiny. 👍
He's been on the booze mate.
 
The demographic and behavioural characteristics of a population are always going to shape how effective any strategy is. The trouble is that the strategy only works if people actually follow it.

I still remember driving through Leicester during the local lockdown. Groups in the area had put out statements saying COVID was disproportionately affecting the local Asian community and that the restrictions were unfair because they punished larger families who needed to support each other. Fair enough in theory. Then you drove through in June 2020 and there was basically no social distancing happening anywhere. That’s the issue in a nutshell. You can design the perfect rules, but none of it matters if people don’t comply.

New Zealand gets held up as the ideal case, but it’s an island with a completely different demographic and geography. The UK is a patchwork of communities with wildly different living situations, population densities, and cultural habits. Predictably, some areas were hit much harder than others.

I lost a parent to COVID. They were isolating, went out a couple of times, caught it, and that was that. At the same time, I was running a business and watching the financial side collapse around me and my clients. So I’ve had both sides of this fall on my head. Hindsight is flawless, but only once the dust has settled and all the data is neatly arranged in a report no one wants to read.

Lockdowns only work if people follow them. If not, you either police it or accept it won’t hold. And the demographic mix determines how realistic either option is. Whoever was in power was stuck with a thankless, lose-lose job.

The debate has now become two immovable camps. One side says everything should have shut down to save lives. The other insists freedom should trump everything and the weak would have to get through it. Neither group will concede anything.

Did lockdowns save lives? Yes. Did they cause long-term damage? Also yes. I’ve got someone working for me whose child missed nursery because of restrictions and now struggles with social interaction and anger. On the other hand, my parent died. How is anyone supposed to weigh that? You can’t make those choices cleanly when you’re living through it, not reading about it twenty years later with perfect clarity.

Every group, whether cultural, age-related, disability-related, anti-immigration, pro-freedom, whatever, believes their rights should come first. Someone in government had to make a decision anyway. Were all of those decisions right? No. Were they made with the intention of doing harm? Also no.

We shouldn’t compare the UK to anywhere else. The conditions aren’t the same, the people aren’t the same, and pretending they are just creates more shouting. What we can do is learn from it. But the core remains the same: rules, regulations, guidelines, lockdowns, whatever you call them, only work if people are actually prepared to follow them.

Using that same logic with other arguments: you’ve often claimed Britain should have held another referendum to rejoin the EU because the outcome affects younger people more than older voters like yourself. But follow that reasoning through. By that standard, we shouldn’t have had lockdowns either, because younger people were far more likely to survive COVID than elderly pensioners such as you. Yet nobody seriously argued that pensioners should be written off for the sake of the under-30s.

Once you start ranking one group’s interests above another’s, the whole thing collapses. People dig in, become entrenched, and stay utterly convinced they’re right, no matter how messy the reality actually is.

Take World War II as an example. People were conscripted, sent to fight, and many never came home. It was devastating for the families involved, but the wider reality was that the country had to survive what was happening across Europe. A government made one decision in the present that carried horrible immediate consequences, yet was judged necessary for long-term survival.

And likewise, a single decision can delay pain today and cause far greater damage tomorrow. That’s the uncomfortable truth behind all of this: you never know the full impact of a decision until long after it’s been made. Judging those choices with hindsight ignores what it was actually like to make them in real time, under pressure, with incomplete information.

And that leads to the final point. The people in power had to make decisions, just as you say they should. Hindsight is always 20-20. Anyone in government at that point, regardless of party, would have got some things right and some things wrong. There’s no scenario where any leader navigates that perfectly. Throwing blame around now doesn’t bring anyone back and doesn’t fix the damage done. I certainly don’t hold them personally responsible for what happened to my family. COVID was bigger than any one politician, and decisions were made with the information available at the time but lockdowns undoubtedly have caused some issues, that everyone is going to be paying for for years
There is a lot I agree with there. My only real disagreement is in trying to compare a decision about whether to rejoin the EU, after years of experience of what leaving actually did, with deciding how to respond to a new virus for which we had no experience at the time.
 
An article from the reliable BBC in February 2020:


"The UK government's scientific advisers believe that the chances of dying from a coronavirus infection are between 0.5% and 1%."

Absolutely ridiculous to close down society over a virus that the chances of dying were between 0.5 and 1 percent. Was paralysing the world economy, education systems, and daily life truly worth it?

As far as I know the seasonal flu, kills around 0.1 percent yet we don't shut down schools or businesses or the rest of society over it.

It's insanity when you think about it. Lockdowns didn't just "flatten the curve" they destroyed global economy, mental health collapsed and suicide attempts among young people soared. Kids also lost years of schooling.

A 0.5 - 1 percent average risk did not justify any of it.
You love picking up statistics and misinterpreting them don’t you! The UK population in 2020 was around 68 million. If 1% of those had died, we would have not only lost 680,000 people to Covid, but also many more as a consequence of the strain on the NHS. So knowing the number of directly attributable deaths and the number of indirectly attributable ones is impossible to have been forecasted but way above anything any government could have accepted.

Seasonal flu deaths each year varies significantly on the severity of the outbreak, but it’s much more often a contributing factor than the cause. 0.1% would be 68,000 in 2020. Which is close to 3 times the maximum actually seen, which is around 25,000.


We had vaccines for the flu. It was controlled. We didn’t for Covid. The flu, with vaccines and with an impact way less than 10% of Covid, still manages to badly stress the NHS most winters.

Yet you, and those who argue like you continue to argue locking down was a mistake and unnecessary.

Your selfishness at the time, your lack of understanding and the transparent paucity of your argument makes me question your sincerity. Could anyone really believe this?
 
You love picking up statistics and misinterpreting them don’t you! The UK population in 2020 was around 68 million. If 1% of those had died, we would have not only lost 680,000 people to Covid, but also many more as a consequence of the strain on the NHS. So knowing the number of directly attributable deaths and the number of indirectly attributable ones is impossible to have been forecasted but way above anything any government could have accepted.

Seasonal flu deaths each year varies significantly on the severity of the outbreak, but it’s much more often a contributing factor than the cause. 0.1% would be 68,000 in 2020. Which is close to 3 times the maximum actually seen, which is around 25,000.


We had vaccines for the flu. It was controlled. We didn’t for Covid. The flu, with vaccines and with an impact way less than 10% of Covid, still manages to badly stress the NHS most winters.

Yet you, and those who argue like you continue to argue locking down was a mistake and unnecessary.

Your selfishness at the time, your lack of understanding and the transparent paucity of your argument makes me question your sincerity. Could anyone really believe this?
You are mixing up case fatality with infection fatality and pretending 1% of the entire population would drop dead.

Sweden never locked down. No school closures, bars and shops closed and and had far less economic and social damage.

The cure was vastly worse than the disease for anyone under 70. That’s not selfishness that’s arithmetic 👍
 
You are mixing up case fatality with infection fatality and pretending 1% of the entire population would drop dead.

Sweden never locked down. No school closures, bars and shops closed and and had far less economic and social damage.

The cure was vastly worse than the disease for anyone under 70. That’s not selfishness that’s arithmetic 👍
I think you've done a great job trying to explain this to normies/bootlickers

Ultimately covid never existed. Its a slight of hand, a magic trick.

All I am trying to do is show how this trick was done. It's just a trick.
 
You are mixing up case fatality with infection fatality and pretending 1% of the entire population would drop dead.

Sweden never locked down. No school closures, bars and shops closed and and had far less economic and social damage.

The cure was vastly worse than the disease for anyone under 70. That’s not selfishness that’s arithmetic 👍
I am doing no such thing. I understand the difference between confirmed cases and the level of unreported infection. The death rate, at the time the scientists made their statement, for confirmed cases was around 5% in the UK.


Sweden is not the UK. There are many differences. Including demographics, a health service better able to respond and more disciplined and cooperative people, ie less people like you.

Governments represent all the people. Whatever their age, sex, skin colour, religion etc.

I can do the maths. They are totally irrelevant other than as totals. Governments don’t discriminate. If they started to do that all hell would break loose. I would argue, for starters, that those refusing to cooperate should be refused treatment by the NHS. Those putting it at risk have forfeited their right to treatment.
 
I think you've done a great job trying to explain this to normies/bootlickers

Ultimately covid never existed. Its a slight of hand, a magic trick.

All I am trying to do is show how this trick was done. It's just a trick.
If it was a trick a lot of people got very sick, me included, by something that didn’t exist and many died.

Some trick. You should go on stage.
 

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