War in Ukraine

On the contrary, when it mattered they were there in Europe stopping the Soviets when they were an actual threat. 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.

Why are they obliged to do that?

Apart from their western European origin story, they did it for both economic and power reasons.....We are now their client states......WW2 ruined us and turned us into from a world leader to a medium level power and elevated the US to the leading world power.

But America isn't part of Europe and they are 37 trillion in debt.....even though you think they should apparently be fighting a world war.

But times are changing......Slowly but they are.

The industrial military complex story is a long one. And I'm not talking about NATO allies, I'm talking about those outside who they backed, got them into a big scrap, them dumped. The list is extensive. And you yourself have argued that NATO caused all of this in the first place via encroachment, so there you go.

As for our empire, WW1 ruined us, WW2 gave the empire nations the call to oppose.
 
NATO operated on the principle that each member spent 2% of it's GDP on defence.

The US has consistently spent close to 4%.
The UK and one or two others kept to the deal and spent 2%.
But most didn't even get close. Even the Baltic countries, who are the first to cry wolf about an imminent Russian invasion at every opportunity, spent a pitiful amount - just over 1% of GDP.

Not surprisingly, the US grew tired of this one-way friendship, of these leeches who expect the US to protect them while they openly show their disdain for their uncultured big brother across the pond.

The US isn't the only one, Turkey and Hungary are backing slowly away from the alliance too. But the US is the loss that will really hurt.

Turkey have a decent arms industry, but they are constantly seeking to arm up from NATO countries. We've just done a huge typhoon deal, they are buying F35 too. They are still in the pocket of the USA who punished them immediately for touting the S400 system with Putin.

Hungary are free to go, but economically they are the real leeches. I think the west will just play a longer game with them because Orban won't live forever
 
The industrial military complex story is a long one. And I'm not talking about NATO allies, I'm talking about those outside who they backed, got them into a big scrap, them dumped. The list is extensive. And you yourself have argued that NATO caused all of this in the first place via encroachment, so there you go.

As for our empire, WW1 ruined us, WW2 gave the empire nations the call to oppose.

WW1 certainly started the ball rolling certainly....WW2 made it permanent, all while keeping that from the public, which has been the underlying reality of our politicians since.

When it comes to this war....it makes perfect sense to me why Ukraine would be fighting Russia since the 2022 invasion (though there own politicians have responsibility for putting them into that position, after getting elected promising peace).

I understand why Russia are fighting, though I think they made the wrong choice in invading and have always said so.....ultimately they are the aggressors.

However, the positions that Europe's social liberals have taken in response to the war has been nuts in my view and I've made that clear over the years. I think I have been proven correct....and for years I was mocked on here by those who now don't appear on these pages.

Once again, the public were lied to about something that has affected their lives and the possibility that our leaders will push our military into a conflict with Russia is real......I wouldn't put it pass these nuts because their egos are severely dented.

But for Joe Public? Why would western Europeans die fighting eastern Europeans in a war between slavs? Especially since European governments are openly replacing Europeans with non Europeans.

What would they be fighting and dying for exactly? So Starmer and that frog can talk about 'values'? Let the egalitarians fight Russia.

Yep, I feel that's an important point....Let the left and the social liberals fight Russia......Let those so keen on that war go fight it. Nothing is stopping any of these 'warriors'.

Their hatred of Russia is dressed up as concern about Ukraine.....Well Ukraine is now destroyed when the war could have been stopped years ago....it is now an economic ball and chain around Europe.....Just as I said it would be. Our energy bills can be charted against the war...not totally the reason why but it's part of it.

What people should be concerned about is what is best for Britain the country.....Not their personal egos. But of course that's not what we get.

What we get are globalists and those more concerned about what EU leaders think.
 
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While Europe's failed politicians b1tch and moan over points in the Trump/Putin peace plan, this is the reality of what's happening on the battlefield.

The longer they wait the worse it gets:

1763900755255.webp
 
WW1 certainly started the ball rolling certainly....WW2 made it permanent, all while keeping that from the public, which has been the underlying reality of our politicians since.

When it comes to this war....it makes perfect sense to me why Ukraine would be fighting Russia since the 2022 invasion (though there own politicians have responsibility for putting them into that position, after getting elected promising peace).

I understand why Russia are fighting, though I think they made the wrong choice in invading and have always said so.....ultimately they are the aggressors.

However, the positions that Europe's social liberals have taken in response to the war has been nuts in my view and I've made that clear over the years. I think I have been proven correct....and for years I was mocked on here by those who now don't appear on these pages.

Once again, the public were lied to about something that has affected their lives and the possibility that our leaders will push our military into a conflict with Russia is real......I wouldn't put it pass these nuts because their egos are severely dented.

But for Joe Public? Why would western Europeans die fighting eastern Europeans in a war between slavs? Especially since European governments are openly replacing Europeans with non Europeans.

What would they be fighting and dying for exactly? So Starmer and that frog can talk about 'values'? Let the egalitarians fight Russia.

Yep, I feel that's an important point....Let the left and the social liberals fight Russia......Let those so keen on that war go fight it. Nothing is stopping any of these 'warriors'.

Their hatred of Russia is dressed up as concern about Ukraine.....Well Ukraine is now destroyed when the war could have been stopped years ago....it is now an economic ball and chain around Europe.....Just as I said it would be. Our energy bills can be charted against the war...not totally the reason why but it's part of it.

What people should be concerned about is what is best for Britain the country.....Not their personal egos. But of course that's not what we get.

What we get are globalists and those more concerned about what EU leaders think.
It's not that long ago that we agreed to recognise Ukraines borders if they gave up their nuclear weapons, which they did
 
It's not that long ago that we agreed to recognise Ukraines borders if they gave up their nuclear weapons, which they did

They weren't 'their nuclear weapons' to begin with. Ukraine was where the Soviets were storing them.

They could only be controlled by Russia....Moscow to be exact.
 
This is a shocking deal.

Frozen Russian worth assets worth $100bn (£76.46bn) should be invested "in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine" - with the US receiving 50% of the profits and Europe adding $100bn in investment for reconstruction

The USA writing in that Europe has to pump in £100bn into rebuilding where any profits from investment are 50% to the US?

Did I read that right? Get f***ed.
 
This is a shocking deal.

Frozen Russian worth assets worth $100bn (£76.46bn) should be invested "in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine" - with the US receiving 50% of the profits and Europe adding $100bn in investment for reconstruction

The USA writing in that Europe has to pump in £100bn into rebuilding where any profits from investment are 50% to the US?

Did I read that right? Get f***ed.

Yeah, I kinda agree on that aspect.

We can't afford it.
 
The worst thing to happen now is the EU and EU countries butting into the peace negotiations. They had their chance to negotiate a good year a few years ago. Leave it to the grown ups in the US to get the deal over the line.
 
I agree with both of you funnily enough.

I think our leaders have put us in this position.

I definitely don't think we can afford what Trump wants.

The State Department were behind all this at the beginning and Europe's leaders all followed. Now Trump acts like the States has no responsibility....Yet it was only a few years ago he was boasting about arming Ukraine.....then again, I think he would have gone with a peace deal back in 2022 but instead we had Johnson and Biden.

We needed a Wilson to say, 'fine we will do humanitarian stuff, but it's not our war'.....Orban, was the only one intelligent enough to say that.
 

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