War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

I'm alright with Spindles making some dough purely on a Holer's doing well basis.

However I make you right McAhuna.

They have pumped and blown so much money in Ukraine.

Yet the country is full of corruption and their politicians are like a conveyor belt.

Billions wasted and largely under reported by the complicit media.

So many people need to be held to account for how we got here.

 

[Spindle]

He isn't going to take land that he can't hold and that's western Ukraine.

Obviously I'm not against defence investment.

My position just regards our foreign policy and what's best for our future.....all our futures.

We are in a right mess over this.....We can't afford commitments for our own economy let alone make the commitments on Ukraine.

Unfortunately there are bad actors who smell blood, and the super rich aren't interested in paying a penny

 

[Spindle]

It's sad to hear people salivating with relish over the latest military tech, it's potential, etc.
This used to be a trademark of the right, now it seems to be more of a feature of liberal politics

Reminder: We are talking about stuff that we pay for to:
1) Slaughter innocent conscripts and civilians
2) Enrich billionaires and arms companies
As an added bonus the defence budgets take money away from health and education.
Nothing to celebrate here folks.
The only thing worth celebrating will be the war ending asap.

Clueless as to the purpose of a SAMP/T system, the Aster 30, and fighter jets with air to air ordnance. Clueless as to the reality of human nature and why he's able to even post this bollocks from his safe wealthy country, taking it as a given.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Unfortunately there are bad actors who smell blood, and the super rich aren't interested in paying a penny

I'm hearing that the US are going to offer Ukraine some kind of peace deal, 'take it or leave it offer'.

Ukraine and Russia saying they have no knowledge but apparently US officials have been briefing on it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Given the official positions of Ukraine/Europe and Russia, personally I'm not seeing how they can reach agreement.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Copied from Telegram source.

'According to the Wall Street Journal, the latest 28-point peace proposal aimed at ending the conflict in Ukraine was developed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, and President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner in direct consultation with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s confidant Kirill Dmitriev, with almost no input from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and other officials in Europe and Ukraine.

U.S. officials familiar with the proposal said it calls for Ukraine to hand over all of the Donbas in Eastern Ukraine to Russia, including land now controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Ukraine would also have to agree at least for several years to abandon joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and would not be permitted to have an international peacekeeping force deployed inside the country to deter further aggression from Russia. In exchange, Ukraine would receive some kind of security guarantees from the United States and Russia would “promise” to not further attack Ukraine or other countries in Europe.'

 

[McAhuna]

Copied from Telegram source.

'According to the Wall Street Journal, the latest 28-point peace proposal aimed at ending the conflict in Ukraine was developed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, and President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner in direct consultation with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s confidant Kirill Dmitriev, with almost no input from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and other officials in Europe and Ukraine.

U.S. officials familiar with the proposal said it calls for Ukraine to hand over all of the Donbas in Eastern Ukraine to Russia, including land now controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Ukraine would also have to agree at least for several years to abandon joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and would not be permitted to have an international peacekeeping force deployed inside the country to deter further aggression from Russia. In exchange, Ukraine would receive some kind of security guarantees from the United States and Russia would “promise” to not further attack Ukraine or other countries in Europe.'

The incoming secret peace deal has been reported in mainstream news sources as well.

As described above looks like the only way out of this. Ukraine does still control some parts of Donbas but are slowly being pushed back. I think Russia would want a permanent guarantee that Ukraine doesn't join NATO or the EU, and also the removal of all Western bioweapons factories (another less discussed provocation to war)

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ukraine's public debt exceeded 100% of GDP in 2025.

A report from the International Monetary Fund indicates that Ukraine's public debt in 2025 will amount to 108.6% of gross domestic product.

Last year, the Fund's assessment pegged the debt level at 89.7% of GDP.

We have been given this ball and chain.

Don't forget the people who supported all this and lost the country billions of pounds with zero positive result to show for it.......Our PMs have committed the country to financially supporting Ukraine.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The incoming secret peace deal has been reported in mainstream news sources as well.

As described above looks like the only way out of this. Ukraine does still control some parts of Donbas but are slowly being pushed back. I think Russia would want a permanent guarantee that Ukraine doesn't join NATO or the EU, and also the removal of all Western bioweapons factories (another less discussed provocation to war)

The Wall Street Journal think that Trump's Ukraine plan aligns with Putin's proposals made during their Alaska meeting.

It is also noted that Washington is relying on Moscow's interest in revitalizing economic relations with the West when implementing a possible peace agreement.

Militarily Ukraine is defeated.....It doesn't have the manpower and is relying heavily on drones, but Russia are out-producing them with drones as well.

 

[McAhuna]

The Wall Street Journal think that Trump's Ukraine plan aligns with Putin's proposals made during their Alaska meeting.

It is also noted that Washington is relying on Moscow's interest in revitalizing economic relations with the West when implementing a possible peace agreement.

Militarily Ukraine is defeated.....It doesn't have the manpower and is relying heavily on drones, but Russia are out-producing them with drones as well.

Want a Deal
Russia wants a deal.
The US wants a deal.
The Ukrainian people mostly want a deal.

Don't want a Deal
The Military Industrial complex
The EU
Zelensky?

The last two could be the main problem. Unless they change tune the war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian.

 

[beak]

Want a Deal
Russia wants a deal.
The US wants a deal.
The Ukrainian people mostly want a deal.

Don't want a Deal
The Military Industrial complex
The EU
Zelensky?

The last two could be the main problem. Unless they change tune the war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian.

I have my doubts on that one. I don't think any country should relinquish land in order to buy off an aggressor, Russia will only accept a deal that is tantamount to an abject surrender by Ukraine.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Want a Deal
Russia wants a deal.
The US wants a deal.
The Ukrainian people mostly want a deal.

Don't want a Deal
The Military Industrial complex
The EU
Zelensky?

The last two could be the main problem. Unless they change tune the war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian.

I think Trump is looking to the mid terms and wants the best economic situation he can get going into it.

The Ukraine war with its sanctions hurts the US a little bit and mostly Europe but going after the shadow fleet and letting Ukraine blow up Russian oil will keep global prices high.

Trump would have tried to get the Saudis to increase oil production massively to counteract that but as this move comes directly after that meeting perhaps Trump was rebuffed.

So I think he's had enough of the Ukraine war and wants it off the books and is preferred to face the reality on the battlefield rather than continue it to save Europe's face.

His problem is that Ukraine and Europe are probably not going to take the L willingly.

For Zelensky, he's life is in danger......Personally I don't expect him to stick around for that much longer. The fawning praise that the media threw at him stopped some time ago and now you start to hear about the corruption scandals and all the rest of it......I don't think that's an accident. I think it heralds a change of western policy.

Ukraine losing was always the most likely result but Europe's leaders have been in part denial and in part lying mode for years (with much of the media complicit) and facing up to their own blunders isn't on the menu.........So Europe will finger-point at Trump and he will partly take the Russian position and finger-point back at them.....It's the least worst result for him.

Europe? Run by a bunch of idiots.

 

[McAhuna]

I have my doubts on that one. I don't think any country should relinquish land in order to buy off an aggressor, Russia will only accept a deal that is tantamount to an abject surrender by Ukraine.

We'll never know for sure because Zelenskyy cancelled the democratic elections.

A good way to secure the 'will of the people'

 

[Spindle]

Ukraine's public debt exceeded 100% of GDP in 2025.

A report from the International Monetary Fund indicates that Ukraine's public debt in 2025 will amount to 108.6% of gross domestic product.

Last year, the Fund's assessment pegged the debt level at 89.7% of GDP.

We have been given this ball and chain.

Don't forget the people who supported all this and lost the country billions of pounds with zero positive result to show for it.......Our PMs have committed the country to financially supporting Ukraine.

Their GDP will have fallen due to this war. It'll all get sold on the bond market

 

[McAhuna]

I think Trump is looking to the mid terms and wants the best economic situation he can get going into it.

The Ukraine war with its sanctions hurts the US a little bit and mostly Europe but going after the shadow fleet and letting Ukraine blow up Russian oil will keep global prices high.

Trump would have tried to get the Saudis to increase oil production massively to counteract that but as this move comes directly after that meeting perhaps Trump was rebuffed.

So I think he's had enough of the Ukraine war and wants it off the books and is preferred to face the reality on the battlefield rather than continue it to save Europe's face.

His problem is that Ukraine and Europe are probably not going to take the L willingly.

For Zelensky, he's life is in danger......Personally I don't expect him to stick around for that much longer. The fawning praise that the media threw at him stopped some time ago and now you start to hear about the corruption scandals and all the rest of it......I don't think that's an accident. I think it heralds a change of western policy.

Ukraine losing was always the most likely result but Europe's leaders have been in part denial and in part lying mode for years (with much of the media complicit) and facing up to their own blunders isn't on the menu.........So Europe will finger-point at Trump and he will partly take the Russian position and finger-point back at them.....It's the least worst result for him.

Europe? Run by a bunch of idiots.

Yep sound analysis.

Western Europe is the problem, more specifically.

Most of the Eastern Europeans will be happy to see the war end as well.
A couple of them, Poland and Hungary, even have half an eye on claiming Ukrainian territory themselves.

 

[Spindle]

Want a Deal
Russia wants a deal.
The US wants a deal.
The Ukrainian people mostly want a deal.

Don't want a Deal
The Military Industrial complex
The EU
Zelensky?

The last two could be the main problem. Unless they change tune the war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian.

What is the deal? Capitulation? Yeah, why take that?

Russia want the land they've failed to take and have Ukraine weakened for the future, obviously so Putin can resume his attacks once he's regrouped.

 

[Spindle]

For Zelensky, he's life is in danger......Personally I don't expect him to stick around for that much longer. The fawning praise that the media threw at him stopped some time ago and now you start to hear about the corruption scandals and all the rest of it......I don't think that's an accident. I think it heralds a change of western policy.

That's not how the media have portrayed it. They've sounded it out that he's dealing with the corruption. Yes, he'll be killed by Russia if they are given what they want.

The USA pisses more money on the military in peacetime, they run a huge force. It's not Ukraine bleeding then, they've sold tons of arms because of this war.

 

[ASCPFC]

What is the deal? Capitulation? Yeah, why take that?

Russia want the land they've failed to take and have Ukraine weakened for the future, obviously so Putin can resume his attacks once he's regrouped.

Ukraine may last longer than anyone thinks. The Russian general staff are incompetent to say the least.
One of Ukraine's issues is too much interference. They get too much irrelevant Western intelligence. Takes longer to wade through than reading War and Peace.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yep sound analysis.

Western Europe is the problem, more specifically.

Most of the Eastern Europeans will be happy to see the war end as well.
A couple of them, Poland and Hungary, even have half an eye on claiming Ukrainian territory themselves.

Now that would be spicy.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ukraine may last longer than anyone thinks. The Russian general staff are incompetent to say the least.
One of Ukraine's issues is too much interference. They get too much irrelevant Western intelligence. Takes longer to wade through than reading War and Peace.

I think 'they' fired off the first of the US missiles the other day....can't remember the name.