Israel v Hamas

It's called the realistic situation of what's on the ground. If the Syrians want to retake the Golan Heights then fair enough. But they tried to take more and failed. Kind of how states work.
Berwick would have been Scottish had they won, but they didn't: so it is how it is.

Very true.

Might is right and moral victories are for movies.

Might is right writes the history books for the victors and teaches it to the next generation, it's only when the subversives are allowed to infiltrate the institutions that anything is different.....the long march into our institutions did it for us.

Logo of the wolf in sheep's clothing is the Fabian society's before they changed it.

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I am afraid it is quite obviously true. Just read the story posted today about why Trump moved the Embassy and recognised the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Trump is openly and unapologetically confirming it.

You were not talking about this as a one-off though, were you?

Funny how you take Trump for his word when it suits!
 
He brought it on himself.
I'm fairly confident that if Trump wanted Starmer to speak, he would have given him the nod beforehand.

Starmer though he could grab some limelight when he was mentioned, but this was Trump's day and Trump wasn't letting anyone else muscle in on it.

Personally, I loved the moment because Starmer does not represent me and certainly doesn't put British people first. He is a scumbag.
Well said.
 
You were not talking about this as a one-off though, were you?

Funny how you take Trump for his word when it suits!
There’s plenty of other examples and evidence. Not that you will believe me so again I turn to Grok, which is itself regarded, because it’s exposure to Musk’s opinions and it’s connection to X, as more likely than other AI to show sympathy to right wing views. This is what it says:-

“Trump’s campaigns have received massive funding from pro-Israel billionaires, often tied to explicit quid pro quo expectations for pro-Israel actions. This creates leverage, as donors gain direct access to influence policy.

• Miriam Adelson’s $100M+ Donations: The Israeli-American casino magnate (widow of Sheldon Adelson) donated over $100 million to Trump’s 2024 campaign via her Preserve America PAC, making her one of his top funders. Reports indicate this was conditioned on Trump supporting West Bank annexation—a “quid pro quo” per critics. Trump publicly acknowledged Adelson’s influence in his first term, saying they visited the White House “probably almost more than anybody” to push for moves like the U.S. embassy relocation to Jerusalem. Post-election, Adelson’s network lobbied for cabinet picks aligned with Israeli hardliners.

• AIPAC and Pro-Israel PAC Funding: Trump’s cabinet nominees (e.g., Elise Stefanik as UN Ambassador, Mike Waltz as National Security Advisor) received $917,821 and hundreds of thousands from AIPAC, respectively. Over 80% of his foreign policy picks have AIPAC ties, per TRT World analysis. Critics argue this “AIPAC blueprint” ensures Zionist priorities (e.g., settlement expansion, Iran confrontation) dominate U.S. policy.

• Historical Ties: Trump’s father, Fred Trump, funded Zionist settlements in the 1940s via the Jewish National Fund. Trump himself received Israeli awards and bailed out debts via Jewish banks in the 1990s. X users and analysts like Gerald Celente call him “owned fully by Adelson and the Israel lobby.”

Substantiation: Federal Election Commission data shows pro-Israel groups donated $500M+ to U.S. politicians since 1990, with Trump as a top beneficiary. This isn’t unique to Trump—it’s bipartisan—but his reliance (e.g., Adelson covering 10% of 2024 costs) amplifies claims of control.


Policy Concessions: Actions Favoring Israel Over U.S. Interests

Trump’s pro-Israel moves often bypassed U.S. intelligence or allies, aligning with Zionist goals like territorial expansion and anti-Iran hawkishness.

• First-Term Giveaways: Moved U.S. embassy to Jerusalem (2018), recognized Golan Heights as Israeli (2019), and brokered Abraham Accords—hailed by AIPAC but criticized for sidelining Palestinians. These fulfilled Christian Zionist prophecies (e.g., “Greater Israel”) pushed by groups like Christians United for Israel (CUFI), with 8M members. Trump ignored U.S. intel warnings on settlement illegality.

• Second-Term Signals: Appointed Christian Zionists like Mike Huckabee (Ambassador to Israel, denies “West Bank” exists) and Pete Hegseth (Defense Secretary, supports Temple Mount rebuilding). Pledged West Bank annexation support despite “America First” rhetoric. Critics note this diverts U.S. aid ($3.8B/year) while domestic issues fester.

• Iran and Gaza: Withdrew from JCPOA (2018) at Netanyahu’s urging, despite U.S. intel favoring it. In 2025, ignored intel to parrot Mossad briefings on Iran, per X claims. Supported Gaza operations post-Oct. 7, 2023, despite PR backlash.

Substantiation: Books like Mearsheimer/Walt’s The Israel Lobby (2007) document how such groups shape policy; Trump’s actions match their playbook. X posts echo: “Netanyahu told multiple people, ‘I control the United States. I control Trump.’” (From Tucker Carlson reports, unverified but widely circulated.)”
 
Hamas are executing people in public in the streets - some for supposed 'collaboration' with Israel. The terrorists are clearly still in control of Gaza. Israel will still need to go back and finish the job.

I expect the weekend protestors will be furious when they find out about these civilian deaths and show us some more placards
 
There’s plenty of other examples and evidence. Not that you will believe me so again I turn to Grok, which is itself regarded, because it’s exposure to Musk’s opinions and it’s connection to X, as more likely than other AI to show sympathy to right wing views. This is what it says:-

“Trump’s campaigns have received massive funding from pro-Israel billionaires, often tied to explicit quid pro quo expectations for pro-Israel actions. This creates leverage, as donors gain direct access to influence policy.

• Miriam Adelson’s $100M+ Donations: The Israeli-American casino magnate (widow of Sheldon Adelson) donated over $100 million to Trump’s 2024 campaign via her Preserve America PAC, making her one of his top funders. Reports indicate this was conditioned on Trump supporting West Bank annexation—a “quid pro quo” per critics. Trump publicly acknowledged Adelson’s influence in his first term, saying they visited the White House “probably almost more than anybody” to push for moves like the U.S. embassy relocation to Jerusalem. Post-election, Adelson’s network lobbied for cabinet picks aligned with Israeli hardliners.

• AIPAC and Pro-Israel PAC Funding: Trump’s cabinet nominees (e.g., Elise Stefanik as UN Ambassador, Mike Waltz as National Security Advisor) received $917,821 and hundreds of thousands from AIPAC, respectively. Over 80% of his foreign policy picks have AIPAC ties, per TRT World analysis. Critics argue this “AIPAC blueprint” ensures Zionist priorities (e.g., settlement expansion, Iran confrontation) dominate U.S. policy.

• Historical Ties: Trump’s father, Fred Trump, funded Zionist settlements in the 1940s via the Jewish National Fund. Trump himself received Israeli awards and bailed out debts via Jewish banks in the 1990s. X users and analysts like Gerald Celente call him “owned fully by Adelson and the Israel lobby.”

Substantiation: Federal Election Commission data shows pro-Israel groups donated $500M+ to U.S. politicians since 1990, with Trump as a top beneficiary. This isn’t unique to Trump—it’s bipartisan—but his reliance (e.g., Adelson covering 10% of 2024 costs) amplifies claims of control.


Policy Concessions: Actions Favoring Israel Over U.S. Interests

Trump’s pro-Israel moves often bypassed U.S. intelligence or allies, aligning with Zionist goals like territorial expansion and anti-Iran hawkishness.

• First-Term Giveaways: Moved U.S. embassy to Jerusalem (2018), recognized Golan Heights as Israeli (2019), and brokered Abraham Accords—hailed by AIPAC but criticized for sidelining Palestinians. These fulfilled Christian Zionist prophecies (e.g., “Greater Israel”) pushed by groups like Christians United for Israel (CUFI), with 8M members. Trump ignored U.S. intel warnings on settlement illegality.

• Second-Term Signals: Appointed Christian Zionists like Mike Huckabee (Ambassador to Israel, denies “West Bank” exists) and Pete Hegseth (Defense Secretary, supports Temple Mount rebuilding). Pledged West Bank annexation support despite “America First” rhetoric. Critics note this diverts U.S. aid ($3.8B/year) while domestic issues fester.

• Iran and Gaza: Withdrew from JCPOA (2018) at Netanyahu’s urging, despite U.S. intel favoring it. In 2025, ignored intel to parrot Mossad briefings on Iran, per X claims. Supported Gaza operations post-Oct. 7, 2023, despite PR backlash.

Substantiation: Books like Mearsheimer/Walt’s The Israel Lobby (2007) document how such groups shape policy; Trump’s actions match their playbook. X posts echo: “Netanyahu told multiple people, ‘I control the United States. I control Trump.’” (From Tucker Carlson reports, unverified but widely circulated.)”
But he has overseen the end of a potential war with India and Pakistan, overseen the recent cease fire in Gaza and probably will oversee the end of the Ukraine war. Likely Saving many 1000s of lives both innocent and military and you still have your TDS. Amazing !
 
We're nowhere near millions, but no, I think our current asylum system is completely unfit for purpose for various reasons.

But that's my point - we don't need to pretend there's some deeply cynical reason why neighbouring countries don't want millions of refugees from Palestine. No country wants millions of refugees from anywhere.

10 million foreigners in 20 years

Denial
 
But he has overseen the end of a potential war with India and Pakistan, overseen the recent cease fire in Gaza and probably will oversee the end of the Ukraine war. Likely Saving many 1000s of lives both innocent and military and you still have your TDS. Amazing !
What have those assertions got to do with the undisputed, by Trump himself, fact that he has prioritised Zionist ambitions in return for campaign funding?

People seem to get very confused by the difference between the US Presidency and the US President. The first continues to carry enormous weight, whoever occupies the chair. The second can improve or diminish that but most times it’s the diplomats behind the scenes who do the real work.

On this occasion I think the diplomats have used Trump’s character, his self aggrandisment, narcissism and desire for attention to force Netanyahu into a corner. Whether it will last is open to great doubt. Even a short time ago he threatened to annihilate Hamas.

That Trump has often claimed to have stopped a war between India and Pakistan doesn’t mean he has. India have flatly denied it. The Pakistan President has sucked up to him by nominating him for the peace prize, thus playing the favourite game of world leaders in 2025. Flatter Trump, reduce tariffs.

There is zero evidence that anything Trump is doing will end the Ukraine war. That will eventually end in the same way the Gaza ceasefire has come about. By quiet diplomacy playing off the characters involved against one another and finding a settlement that can end the killing, at least for a while.

That’s not TDS in any sense. It doesn’t exist to start with. Being critical of Trump is not delusion. It’s common sense for anyone with eyes, ears and a brain.
 
What have those assertions got to do with the undisputed, by Trump himself, fact that he has prioritised Zionist ambitions in return for campaign funding?

People seem to get very confused by the difference between the US Presidency and the US President. The first continues to carry enormous weight, whoever occupies the chair. The second can improve or diminish that but most times it’s the diplomats behind the scenes who do the real work.

On this occasion I think the diplomats have used Trump’s character, his self aggrandisment, narcissism and desire for attention to force Netanyahu into a corner. Whether it will last is open to great doubt. Even a short time ago he threatened to annihilate Hamas.

That Trump has often claimed to have stopped a war between India and Pakistan doesn’t mean he has. India have flatly denied it. The Pakistan President has sucked up to him by nominating him for the peace prize, thus playing the favourite game of world leaders in 2025. Flatter Trump, reduce tariffs.

There is zero evidence that anything Trump is doing will end the Ukraine war. That will eventually end in the same way the Gaza ceasefire has come about. By quiet diplomacy playing off the characters involved against one another and finding a settlement that can end the killing, at least for a while.

That’s not TDS in any sense. It doesn’t exist to start with. Being critical of Trump is not delusion. It’s common sense for anyone with eyes, ears and a brain.
Do you have oils or sauces with your salads because this will need a lot !
 
So the hostages bodies are the new source of contention. Trying to be fair-minded, most buildings in Gaza have suffered damage or been destroyed. Maybe it's proving difficult/dangerous to locate bodies
Or perhaps the hostage death was something done by HAMAS, that they want to try to conceal.
Either way, Israel is now openly restricting aid, until the bodies are returned. Not good for the people of Gaza
 
So the hostages bodies are the new source of contention. Trying to be fair-minded, most buildings in Gaza have suffered damage or been destroyed. Maybe it's proving difficult/dangerous to locate bodies
Or perhaps the hostage death was something done by HAMAS, that they want to try to conceal.
Either way, Israel is now openly restricting aid, until the bodies are returned. Not good for the people of Gaza
Every hostage death is the responsibility of Hamas. Not being able to locate bodies was totally predictable as some hostages would have been killed alongside their captors in air strikes and lie beneath the rubble, maybe never to be found.

It was always the case that the Netanyahu government would use a pretext to resume their occupation of Gaza. The test for Trump is whether he stops them, or even can if he tries. His statement yesterday suggests he won’t even try.

This is also a test for the international coalition that has enabled this to happen and allowed Trump to take the credit. How will they respond to Trump if he now supports Netanyahu?
 
Well, in that case, I can't really say I disagree with you.....though I say we don't need to listen to international law, as most of that was based upon our own systems.

That whole region has been nothing but a nightmare for this country. Ever since our betrayal of the Arabs after WW1 where we didn't give them back control of the land despite promising to, much to Lawrence of Arabia's dismay (though he was always loyal to his country)....to Jewish terrorists eventually kicking us out in 47, killing our soldiers and VIPs....with leaders of those terrorists being rewarded with important state positions later on.

Israel's action in the modern day are the sole ethnic...I meant to say ethical responsibility of the US state (but there's shades of both), which defends it and shields it from consequences. I personally regard the US as compromised. The moral questions of that are there for people to criticise or defend but again as said, this country itself is nothing but a joke in terms of our ability to affect change in the world.

As Trump clearly showed by his humiliation of Starmer recently.....even though I regard the recent talking up of our involvement in this ceasefire as probably ridiculous

Despite being amongst Starmer's biggest critics on here I really did not appreciate that humiliation of our representative.
Little to disagree with this, save I think our quiet involvement through established diplomatic channels was significant but will already be forgotten.

Just how the FCDO likes it.
 
But he has overseen the end of a potential war with India and Pakistan, overseen the recent cease fire in Gaza and probably will oversee the end of the Ukraine war. Likely Saving many 1000s of lives both innocent and military and you still have your TDS. Amazing !
What is amazing is him taking credit for India/Pakistan!

He has knocked off the easy kills in Gaza and then literally claimed to have given world peace. I hope it has ended but let us judge in a month.

He has done harm/good/harm/good in Ukraine and Putin has largely played him. Again, let us see in time...
 
He brought it on himself.
I'm fairly confident that if Trump wanted Starmer to speak, he would have given him the nod beforehand.

Starmer though he could grab some limelight when he was mentioned, but this was Trump's day and Trump wasn't letting anyone else muscle in on it.

Personally, I loved the moment because Starmer does not represent me and certainly doesn't put British people first. He is a scumbag.
Quite. This was the Trump Show with world leaders grouped behind him as mere props.

The humiliation wasn't the put down, it was the USA staging representatives of important allies like a shop window at Christmas.
 
Every hostage death is the responsibility of Hamas. Not being able to locate bodies was totally predictable as some hostages would have been killed alongside their captors in air strikes and lie beneath the rubble, maybe never to be found.

It was always the case that the Netanyahu government would use a pretext to resume their occupation of Gaza. The test for Trump is whether he stops them, or even can if he tries. His statement yesterday suggests he won’t even try.

This is also a test for the international coalition that has enabled this to happen and allowed Trump to take the credit. How will they respond to Trump if he now supports Netanyahu?
Hamas are back in control in Gaza and are executing people in the streets. Israel needs to go back in and finish the job.
 

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