Israel v Hamas

[Spindle]

It's ok, some western leaders have appealed to them, they'll come around to our way of thinking.

 

[georgenorman]

George, this is not true.

Which bits?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I've told you why I support Israel. I've been clear and honest. It doesn't mean that I want to see women and children die. We can both agree on that.

Unfortunately, I can't control that and neither can you. That is why your endless drone is simply futile virtue signalling. It is also clearly born from ideological prejudice. Being concerned for life is being human. Sadly, I don't believe for one minute that your heart would bleed quite so much if Israelis were being killed at the same rate. You have chosen a side, but you just won't admit it.

So we should only talk about things we have control over..? Do you really want to walk through the extension of that logic? 90% of posts on this website are about things we have no control over.

You can believe what you want - that you and others still need to invent positions for me, or insist I must believe things that I don't, speaks for itself.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Hamas are Israeli, and they attacked indescriminately on Oct 7.

^^^ Ignored (I think you called it "schooled")

Your insinuation is disgusting, the IDF didn't attack, they defended. Nobody wanted the IDF provoked into action because we are smart enough to understand just how superior they are. Everyone here on the side of our allies in the region want the Israeli Arabs to be peaceful, but they refuse. And you refuse to understand this, you just seem to think that the Jew should take it.


You answer with:


Which doesn't answer, DOES IT??? Then because I take the piss you say I've been schooled.

What a flag waving angry student. You'd better dye your hair another colour this week and perhaps get a new nose piercing.

You didn’t even ask a question 😂

Take a few deep breaths, it’s not going very well this morning, IS IT????

 

[The Dolphin]

The recognition of a Palestinian State run by a terrorist organisation who since yesterday have clearly stated that the recognition is a reward for their attack, is a stain on this Country and its history.
If The Prime Minister and his bunch of inept cowboys could go any lower in my esteem, I know not how.
This is a black day for the UK and we will be ashamed for a very long time to come.
This Government is just pure scum.

 

[The Dolphin]

What you're describing is collective punishment, which is a war crime.

You've also been arguing for months on end is that Israel is not deliberately killing civilians... the above seems to fly in the face of that idea.

Maybe Hamas are killing their own people?
Maybe not everything we read is true?
However, the one thing that we do know is that October 7th 2023 happened and Hamas want to do that again and again and again.
Hand over the hostages - dead or alive - and maybe it will stop.
No one wants to see people dying but Hamas have it within their power to stop it - but they won't.
They have now raised their flag in London, there will, be a full blown Embassy soon and diplomatic immunity to go with it.
Appeasement of the Muslim population of the UK and the far left anti-semitic group still alive and well within the Labour Party.
This decision I so wrong, you could not make it up.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Why is Britain now recognising Palestine?

Could it be anything to do with appeasing Muslim and hard left voters?

Do they really think that either side will ever accept a two state solution?

 

[silvertop]

UK, Germany, Italy, Czech Republic, Hungary, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, India...

Of course, as you well know, I did not mean supporting Israel (I support Israel); I meant supporting the actions of the current regime in Israel. Two very different things.

Thus, you name some countries who have spoken openly against the current actions and are proposing to recognize a free Palestinian state; India also supports a 2-state approach; the basket case that is the pro-Putin Hungary; and a few US client states.

Putting ellipses at the end suggesting the list goes on and on is misleading. It would not have taken that much time and effort to list the one true outlier that stands unequivocally besides the USA - Micronesia.

Or can we also add North Korea?

 

[silvertop]

Why is Britain now recognising Palestine?

Could it be anything to do with appeasing Muslim and hard left voters?

Do they really think that either side will ever accept a two state solution?

It is because what is happening is awful and it does not want to be accused of just standing by.

All virtue signaling and not going to happen of course.

But are you really suggesting that Muslims and the hard left are the only people who want to see a 2 state solution and peace in the region?

By that rationale, I assume that non-Muslims (who are not hard left), the moderate left, centrists and the whole right want to see all Palestinians bombed to death?

I am aware there is issue fatigue and most people could not give a fig about what is happening down there. However, I can more or less guarantee that there are many on the broad church centre and right who do not support Israel's actions right now. And many on the hard left who are more than content to see Gaza blown to the Stone Age.

 

[beak]

It is because what is happening is awful and it does not want to be accused of just standing by.

All virtue signaling and not going to happen of course.

But are you really suggesting that Muslims and the hard left are the only people who want to see a 2 state solution and peace in the region?

By that rationale, I assume that non-Muslims (who are not hard left), the moderate left, centrists and the whole right want to see all Palestinians bombed to death?

I am aware there is issue fatigue and most people could not give a fig about what is happening down there. However, I can more or less guarantee that there are many on the broad church centre and right who do not support Israel's actions right now. And many on the hard left who are more than content to see Gaza blown to the Stone Age.

The silent majority whilst being uncomfortable are reticent to suggest that Israel stops whilst the Hostages are still being held captive, if the hostages were released the issue would very quickly resolve.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It is because what is happening is awful and it does not want to be accused of just standing by.

All virtue signaling and not going to happen of course.

But are you really suggesting that Muslims and the hard left are the only people who want to see a 2 state solution and peace in the region?

By that rationale, I assume that non-Muslims (who are not hard left), the moderate left, centrists and the whole right want to see all Palestinians bombed to death?

I am aware there is issue fatigue and most people could not give a fig about what is happening down there. However, I can more or less guarantee that there are many on the broad church centre and right who do not support Israel's actions right now. And many on the hard left who are more than content to see Gaza blown to the Stone Age.

I would expect the vast majority of people wish there was peace in the region. That is a given.
Of course, we have recently seen which side of the political fence has members that cheers on murder, so there are always exceptions.
One if forced to suspect that this gesture is about domestic opinion, since it makes no sense practically or in terms of Western security as far as I can tell.
You have admitted that it is virtue signalling, but for whose benefit if not potential voters?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

So we should only talk about things we have control over..? Do you really want to walk through the extension of that logic? 90% of posts on this website are about things we have no control over.

You can believe what you want - that you and others still need to invent positions for me, or insist I must believe things that I don't, speaks for itself.

You can talk all you like. It won't make any difference or convince anyone that you aren't biased.

 

[Spindle]

Which bits?

The breadth and depth. It was nothing on what Labour proposed, it was an afterthought political appeasement but about a decade ago Theresa May started with this lie that it was a Tory thing and that's been believed.

You can slam Labour for all sorts of things but don't try and claim that the Tories were about to create what they created.

 

[Spindle]

You didn’t even ask a question 😂

Take a few deep breaths, it’s not going very well this morning, IS IT????

No, but I made a statement and you failed to refute it, because you knew it was true.

It's a common theme with you, ignoring things you don't like that you can't change. Like that public execution by Hamas - not a word from you on it - Isn't that a war crime?

 

[silvertop]

I would expect the vast majority of people wish there was peace in the region. That is a given.
Of course, we have recently seen which side of the political fence has members that cheers on murder, so there are always exceptions.
One if forced to suspect that this gesture is about domestic opinion, since it makes no sense practically or in terms of Western security as far as I can tell.
You have admitted that it is virtue signalling, but for whose benefit if not potential voters?

It also seeks to pacify the increasingly growly Labour back bench and bond us with like minded countries.

All, no doubt, with Trump's silent support. Despite what I think if him, he is anti war as an unprofitable enterprise, on balance. He would seek to control Israel but is no different from any Republican leader in that he is hamstrung by his base.

Thus, it is a surprisingly astute piece of foreign policy that works nicely with a section of the electorate, helps to just about hold the Parliamentary party together, keeps us cozy with the Canadians and where the US turns a blind eye.

The only loss I see is our trade/relations with Israel. However, on this we have imposed sanctions which may or (probably) may not have contributed to a 5% drop up to Q1 this year. More virtue signaling. Keir and the Israeli Ambassador will have had a nice fireside chat whereby Keir said he will recognize Palestine and Israel will condemn the UK's decision in the strongest possible terms; but the UK will continue to cryptically support Israel if not what they are currently doing.

On the words highlighted, a significant minority (including posters on here) support Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing and wish to see the whole of the region under sole Israeli occupation and control (save those select Arabs present to clean their toilets etc.).

 

[silvertop]

The silent majority whilst being uncomfortable are reticent to suggest that Israel stops whilst the Hostages are still being held captive, if the hostages were released the issue would very quickly resolve.

Trouble is I don't think they are being held by a single organisation but by a disparate pack of Jihadi nut house groups. I don't think Hamas have them all and may well be loath to admit this as it would present to their own people a lack of control and weakness.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It also seeks to pacify the increasingly growly Labour back bench and bond us with like minded countries.

All, no doubt, with Trump's silent support. Despite what I think if him, he is anti war as an unprofitable enterprise, on balance. He would seek to control Israel but is no different from any Republican leader in that he is hamstrung by his base.

Thus, it is a surprisingly astute piece of foreign policy that works nicely with a section of the electorate, helps to just about hold the Parliamentary party together, keeps us cozy with the Canadians and where the US turns a blind eye.

The only loss I see is our trade/relations with Israel. However, on this we have imposed sanctions which may or (probably) may not have contributed to a 5% drop up to Q1 this year. More virtue signaling. Keir and the Israeli Ambassador will have had a nice fireside chat whereby Keir said he will recognize Palestine and Israel will condemn the UK's decision in the strongest possible terms; but the UK will continue to cryptically support Israel if not what they are currently doing.

That's a very honest assessment.

It won't have any effect on Israel or Hamas in terms of peace, but who cares about peace when you can appear virtuous.

 

[beak]

Trouble is I don't think they are being held by a single organisation but by a disparate pack of Jihadi nut house groups. I don't think Hamas have them all and may well be loath to admit this as it would present to their own people a lack of control and weakness.

It only takes a nutter or two to **** up the world, Hitler,Stalin Putin and Trump take your pick and they hijack any political agenda.

 

[silvertop]

That's a very honest assessment.

It won't have any effect on Israel or Hamas in terms of peace, but who cares about peace when you can appear virtuous.

That might be quote of the day.

 

[Spiderman]

A bit late on that one, The NHS,pensions,benefits, schooling, free libraries and universal sufferage have already arrived. No Victorian values of sticking children up chimneys or match girls suffering phossy jaw now.

Bloody White privilege 😏