Tories - the dead body twitches.

[HKOwen]

I do try to add substantive comment to often speculative and inaccurate supposition.
Apropos 'Mass migration', Reform have the solution, it will be so easy to 'Stop the boats'. Flick of a switch and 'Hey Presto' the problem has been solved. Total and utter hogwash, junk politics built on sand.

The Conservatives had an in excusable record on immigration, throwing stones at Reform will not change that, like many others I became totally disillusioned with the Conservatives post Brexit vote. The net zero nonsense Boris was championing to please his dad was and is damaging the country. The failure to do anything about the illegal immigrant industry and the massive increase in so called legal migration have hurt the country.

I think we need radical policies for a changed world, which I don't see from the Conservatives, I think are many good Conservative MPs who had to bite their tongues under May and Johnson.

The failure to bring the police to heel with their woke nonsense and failing to properly come down on the various radical groups such as JSO who were allowed to close and vandalise London for example.

I would happily support the Conservatives if they had anything to offer which might work and stop the decline of the nation.

The electorate are not stupid, albeit they made a pigs aear of tyhe last election but that was anti Conservative failure as much as pro Labour.

The sight of otherwise intelligent people like Gove being a sycophant to the autistic child was nauseating

 

[Willo]

The Conservatives had an in excusable record on immigration, throwing stones at Reform will not change that, like many others I became totally disillusioned with the Conservatives post Brexit vote. The net zero nonsense Boris was championing to please his dad was and is damaging the country. The failure to do anything about the illegal immigrant industry and the massive increase in so called legal migration have hurt the country.

I think we need radical policies for a changed world, which I don't see from the Conservatives, I think are many good Conservative MPs who had to bite their tongues under May and Johnson.

The failure to bring the police to heel with their woke nonsense and failing to properly come down on the various radical groups such as JSO who were allowed to close and vandalise London for example.

I would happily support the Conservatives if they had anything to offer which might work and stop the decline of the nation.

The electorate are not stupid, albeit they made a pigs aear of tyhe last election but that was anti Conservative failure as much as pro Labour.

The sight of otherwise intelligent people like Gove being a sycophant to the autistic child was nauseating

I fully accept our failures which culminated in a crushing electoral defeat and are fully cognisant of the fact that we have to regain the trust of the British public. This will have to be earned and takes time.
With our defeat coupled with a failing Government, it is hardly surprising that Reform with their populist, attention-seeking and ill-thought out pledges are seen as a political oasis but in reality it is a mirage.Junk politics at its finest.

 

[georgenorman]

With respect you are making such a judgement whist we are in the midst of a substantial 'Policy Renewal Programme' and the General Election is hardly imminent.

What, are you contemplating a Tory-Respect coalition!

 

[Willo]

What, are you contemplating a Tory-Respect coalition!

😀

 

[HKOwen]

I fully accept our failures which culminated in a crushing electoral defeat and are fully cognisant of the fact that we have to regain the trust of the British public. This will have to be earned and takes time.
With our defeat coupled with a failing Government, it is hardly surprising that Reform with their populist, attention-seeking and ill-thought out pledges are seen as a political oasis but in reality it is a mirage.Junk politics at its finest.

I am sorry to say that has a similar whiff to Rebecca Long-Bailey saying the voters were essentially too thick to get the Corbyn manifesto.

You are saying the huge number of people who support Reform are too thick to realise they are being fed junk politics.

 

[Willo]

I am sorry to say that has a similar whiff to Rebecca Long-Bailey saying the voters were essentially too thick to get the Corbyn manifesto.

You are saying the huge number of people who support Reform are too thick to realise they are being fed junk politics.

I am not in the business of casting aspersions as to the mental capacities of those who believe that Reform are deserving of their support.
We Conservatives are still rebuilding but unforgiven, Labour are in a mess and Reform are viewed as the untested but untainted bright and shiny new dish on the menu.
I can appreciate that for many disillusioned voters, including former Conservative supporters, Reform might seem as a political oasis but in reality it is a mirage.

 

[HKOwen]

I am not in the business of casting aspersions as to the mental capacities of those who believe that Reform are deserving of their support.
We Conservatives are still rebuilding but unforgiven, Labour are in a mess and Reform are viewed as the untested but untainted bright and shiny new dish on the menu.

That's better language 👍Every party was untested at one time

 

[Eagleman13]

With respect you are making such a judgement whist we are in the midst of a substantial 'Policy Renewal Programme' and the General Election is hardly imminent.

Ok Willo, what is it? Virtually every post you've made in your defence of the Tories, you keep mentioning this 'Policy Renewal Programme', so, what is it? What will it do to make you more electable? What will it do to enhance the country? What will it do to make the public trust you?

 

[Willo]

Ok Willo, what is it? Virtually every post you've made in your defence of the Tories, you keep mentioning this 'Policy Renewal Programme', so, what is it? What will it do to make you more electable? What will it do to enhance the country? What will it do to make the public trust you?

https://www.alexburghart.org.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-speech-launching-conservatives-policy-renewal-programme

I will add that there have been thousands of submissions from members including those with expertise in particular areas.
Member events that have been taking place throughout this year have been the opportunity for those to contribute on policy, campaigns, techniques and more.

 

[Eagleman13]

https://www.alexburghart.org.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-speech-launching-conservatives-policy-renewal-programme

I will add that there have been thousands of submissions from members including those with expertise in particular areas.

Nice election tub-thumping. She goes on (& on) about net zero, has numerous pops at Liebore & the Libdems particularly Ed Davies, & says nothing(imo). Get right to the end & its just waffle, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, there is nothing in there that any political party couldn't knock up in 10mins. Sorry mate, this is just a re-hash of old policies & made into a mish-mash of ideas. Good luck with it tho.

Nearly forgot, thank you for posting.

 

[Willo]

Nice election tub-thumping. She goes on (& on) about net zero, has numerous pops at Liebore & the Libdems particularly Ed Davies, & says nothing(imo). Get right to the end & its just waffle, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, there is nothing in there that any political party couldn't knock up in 10mins. Sorry mate, this is just a re-hash of old policies & made into a mish-mash of ideas. Good luck with it tho.

It was a 'Broadbrush' articulation of the 'Direction of Travel', the 'Policy Renewal Programme' currently in full-swing is detailed and on-going. There have been thousands of submissions from members including those with expertise in particular fields.
The process is aimed at the diagnosis of the challenges and opportunities ahead for the party, with plans for direct policy recommendations coming at a later stage of the programme.

 

[beak]

I fully accept our failures which culminated in a crushing electoral defeat and are fully cognisant of the fact that we have to regain the trust of the British public. This will have to be earned and takes time.
With our defeat coupled with a failing Government, it is hardly surprising that Reform with their populist, attention-seeking and ill-thought out pledges are seen as a political oasis but in reality it is a mirage.Junk politics at its finest.

That is just so good Farage the mirage,brilliant!

 

[Willo]

The Tories have been pretty hopeless ever since Dave painted himself into a corner over Brexit.

Having Badenoch as a leader is proof of how far that Party have sunk.

If you have the view that a re-shuffle is a sign of things not going well, which I agree actually, consider this ; Starmer reshuffled his Shadow Cabinet five times: in June 2020, May 2021, June 2021, November 2021 and 2023.

Labour are currently a hapless Government with only a feeble opposition.

A role reversal pre July 24

It has been well documented that I did not vote for Badenoch in the leadership contest.
I was present at an event with a Shadow Cabinet minister whose message was that the party cannot keep changing leaders all the time.
My own personal view is that there does seem a certain inevitability that Badenoch will be replaced before the General Election.I suspect the local elections in May could be pivotal but of course events before that could prove significant.
Time will tell.

 

[beak]

It has been well documented that I did not vote for Badenoch in the leadership contest.
I was present at an event with a Shadow Cabinet minister whose message was that the party cannot keep changing leaders all the time.
My own personal view is that there does seem a certain inevitability that Badenoch will be replaced before the General Election.Time will tell.

Time is not a thing the Tories should dally away,procrastination is the thief of time.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

It has been well documented that I did not vote for Badenoch in the leadership contest.
I was present at an event with a Shadow Cabinet minister whose message was that the party cannot keep changing leaders all the time.
My own personal view is that there does seem a certain inevitability that Badenoch will be replaced before the General Election.I suspect the local elections in May could be pivotal but of course events before that could prove significant.
Time will tell.

So, apparently, we’re meant to get excited about yet another Conservative “policy renewal programme.” A fresh reinvention. A shiny new reboot. Call it what you like: Doctor Bloody Who, Doctor Bloody Pete, Doctor Bloody Shipman for all I care. In fact, Shipman would probably get more votes than the current Tory party. At least he had a plan to bring down waiting lists.

I grew up in a Labour household. Dad was a police officer, mum a civil servant. I voted Labour in 2001, then switched to the Conservatives in 2005 and stuck with them as my local MP was an excellent local MP. That experiment is finished. The Tories love to pretend they’re reinventing themselves, but it always ends the same way: they tear themselves apart, glue the pieces back together in the same shitty order, and then expect applause. They’ve completely lost sight of what actually matters, though to be fair, so have the rest of them.

My local Tory MP, competent if a bit too far right for me, got booted out in favour of a 26-year-old Instagram candidate. Her big post-victory idea? Launching a petition to “save the cinema.” Student politics at its finest. Then she announced she was going to save the High Street thanks to her “retail experience.” Which turns out to be one year at ASOS’s head office. And ASOS is the biggest High Street killer going. That’s like working at Greggs and then complaining about obesity.

And where does that leave me? I run my own business and I’m being taxed out of existence by the current incumbents. Not that the last lot were any better, they bled us dry too. None of them have the faintest clue what business actually is. They talk about it like it’s some abstract blob, a buzzword for manifestos. But they’ve never once had to risk their house, their sanity, or their future on something they believed in. They’ve never signed the cheques, watched the cash flow dry up, or lain awake at 3am wondering if payroll can be met. To them, “business” is a photo-op in a hard hat. To me, it’s life or death.

And what are the choices? Labour, too left-wing and completely mental. Conservatives, I don’t even know what they are anymore. Lib Dems, led by a bloke who oversaw the Post Office scandal. Greens, nice if you want to save the bees, but I’d quite like to live in the real world with working kettles. Reform, I respect Farage’s ability to actually debate people on the issues (a rare skill these days), but he surrounds himself with enough idiots to kill his own credibility. That said

Here’s the bigger picture: when 150,000 people turn up to a rally, you can’t ignore it. That’s not 15 blokes outside a pub waving England flags, that’s a movement. Same mistake as 2016: Remain spent the whole campaign sneering at Leave voters, telling them they were stupid. People don’t like being told they’re stupid. Sometimes they’ll vote a certain way just to prove you wrong. Probably the Tories best route is to steer into this. The problem - all their experience in running a government has left, so I don't think they have anything Reform needs.

The Conservative Party is bereft of talent, bankrupt of ideas, and utterly incapable of learning from its own history. Stick a fork in it. It’s done Willo and I say that as what you would probably call a traditional Tory voter.

 

[Willo]

So, apparently, we’re meant to get excited about yet another Conservative “policy renewal programme.” A fresh reinvention. A shiny new reboot. Call it what you like: Doctor Bloody Who, Doctor Bloody Pete, Doctor Bloody Shipman for all I care. In fact, Shipman would probably get more votes than the current Tory party. At least he had a plan to bring down waiting lists.

I grew up in a Labour household. Dad was a police officer, mum a civil servant. I voted Labour in 2001, then switched to the Conservatives in 2005 and stuck with them as my local MP was an excellent local MP. That experiment is finished. The Tories love to pretend they’re reinventing themselves, but it always ends the same way: they tear themselves apart, glue the pieces back together in the same shitty order, and then expect applause. They’ve completely lost sight of what actually matters, though to be fair, so have the rest of them.

My local Tory MP, competent if a bit too far right for me, got booted out in favour of a 26-year-old Instagram candidate. Her big post-victory idea? Launching a petition to “save the cinema.” Student politics at its finest. Then she announced she was going to save the High Street thanks to her “retail experience.” Which turns out to be one year at ASOS’s head office. And ASOS is the biggest High Street killer going. That’s like working at Greggs and then complaining about obesity.

And where does that leave me? I run my own business and I’m being taxed out of existence by the current incumbents. Not that the last lot were any better, they bled us dry too. None of them have the faintest clue what business actually is. They talk about it like it’s some abstract blob, a buzzword for manifestos. But they’ve never once had to risk their house, their sanity, or their future on something they believed in. They’ve never signed the cheques, watched the cash flow dry up, or lain awake at 3am wondering if payroll can be met. To them, “business” is a photo-op in a hard hat. To me, it’s life or death.

And what are the choices? Labour, too left-wing and completely mental. Conservatives, I don’t even know what they are anymore. Lib Dems, led by a bloke who oversaw the Post Office scandal. Greens, nice if you want to save the bees, but I’d quite like to live in the real world with working kettles. Reform, I respect Farage’s ability to actually debate people on the issues (a rare skill these days), but he surrounds himself with enough idiots to kill his own credibility. That said

Here’s the bigger picture: when 150,000 people turn up to a rally, you can’t ignore it. That’s not 15 blokes outside a pub waving England flags, that’s a movement. Same mistake as 2016: Remain spent the whole campaign sneering at Leave voters, telling them they were stupid. People don’t like being told they’re stupid. Sometimes they’ll vote a certain way just to prove you wrong. Probably the Tories best route is to steer into this. The problem - all their experience in running a government has left, so I don't think they have anything Reform needs.

The Conservative Party is bereft of talent, bankrupt of ideas, and utterly incapable of learning from its own history. Stick a fork in it. It’s done Willo and I say that as what you would probably call a traditional Tory voter.

With respect, I profoundly disagree with this characterisation of my party.

Apropos the assertion that the Conservative Party is "Done", I do not believe this for a single moment. It is not denial, or a last stand on the hill of my choosing. I certainly do not think our future is inevitably downward, nor do I think, long-term, Reform’s success is inevitably upward and forever.

However hard the defectors and detractors spout this mantra,we stand by our convictions.
Both Labour and Reform have now agreed that the Conservatives can and should be ignored. They tell everyone that the Conservative are dead.
Well of course they say that because they need it to be true, and are desperate for the public, and seemingly any Conservatives they can find, to give up, pack up, go home.They want it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. That doesn’t make it true unless you start to listen too much to the siren call.
I am in contact with a plethora of supporters,we are staying to fight, rebuild and win again, we are not for walking away when the chips are down.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

With respect, I profoundly disagree with this characterisation of my party.

Apropos the assertion that the Conservative Party is "Done", I do not believe this for a single moment. It is not denial, or a last stand on the hill of my choosing. I certainly do not think our future is inevitably downward, nor do I think, long-term, Reform’s success is inevitably upward and forever.
However hard the defectors and detractors spout this mantra,we stand by our convictions.

You’ve just highlighted the problem.

I’m a voter with no political allegiance. I’ve said – nothing in the Conservative Party appeals to me. The response? Keep marching down the same road – and tell me I don’t understand.

Well guess what – being told I’m not smart enough to see the brilliance doesn’t make me vote Conservative. It makes me switch off.

It’s like telling a restaurant manager, “I didn’t enjoy the meal,” and hearing back, “The menu will regenerate soon – besides, only critics complain.” That doesn’t keep me for dessert – it sends me to the place next door.

And here’s the question: are people leaving because your offer is poor, or because the other place is good? Why do people go to McDonald’s? Not out of love – but because, as Rory Sutherland says, it’s very good at not being terrible. The problem is we've ended up with everywhere being a Mcdonald's - by and large the same.

For the record, I wouldn’t vote Reform. But I see why others do – it feels different, new.

What I want is honesty. Don’t claim bold new plans after 15 years in power – if they were real, you’d have delivered them. Until you face that, you’re not persuading people like me.

But then again, maybe I’m just stupid enough not to understand that this regeneration is different.

 

[Willo]

You’ve just highlighted the problem.

I’m a voter with no political allegiance. I’ve said – nothing in the Conservative Party appeals to me. The response? Keep marching down the same road – and tell me I don’t understand.

Well guess what – being told I’m not smart enough to see the brilliance doesn’t make me vote Conservative. It makes me switch off.

It’s like telling a restaurant manager, “I didn’t enjoy the meal,” and hearing back, “The menu will regenerate soon – besides, only critics complain.” That doesn’t keep me for dessert – it sends me to the place next door.

And here’s the question: are people leaving because your offer is poor, or because the other place is good? Why do people go to McDonald’s? Not out of love – but because, as Rory Sutherland says, it’s very good at not being terrible. The problem is we've ended up with everywhere being a Mcdonald's - by and large the same.

For the record, I wouldn’t vote Reform. But I see why others do – it feels different, new.

What I want is honesty. Don’t claim bold new plans after 15 years in power – if they were real, you’d have delivered them. Until you face that, you’re not persuading people like me.

But then again, maybe I’m just stupid enough not to understand that this regeneration is different.

The Conservatives have been going through a period of having to address the mistakes that were made whilst in Government.
We can all learn from mistakes and in terms of the last Government there were some fair grievances.We have accepted some of the 'Charges' laid at our door.
Learning from past mistakes is part of our recovery process.
We are in the midst of the biggest policy renewal process in a generation.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

The Conservatives have been going through a period of having to address the mistakes that were made whilst in Government.
We can all learn from mistakes and in terms of the last Government there were some fair grievances.We have accepted some of the 'Charges' laid at our door.
Learning from past mistakes is part of our recovery process.

There are two rules of thumb in politics, and they apply no matter the party.

First: when anyone says “I’ve been very clear” (or “she’s been very clear, he’s been very clear”), you can guarantee they haven’t been clear at all - and they’re about to answer a completely different question.

Second: nothing in politics is true until it’s officially been denied.

Party power doesn’t necessarily care about the individual voter. At the end of the day, politicians do what they must to hold on to power. And that’s why we’re in a race to the bottom, where people vote for the least worst option.

The Conservatives had 15 years in government. So when they point at the current bloc and say “look how bad they are”, it lacks a bit of self-awareness. Sit any politician down — Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, whatever - on a Sunday morning with Laura Kuenssberg, and you’ll hear the same evasions, the same tired lines. See rules one and two above.

For balance, let’s take Keir Starmer. I think he’s a walking disaster of a politician. Just look at Mandelson in the background, or the Angela Rayner saga. But ultimately, I’m not looking to vote for Starmer. I don’t politically align with him - and that’s the end of it.

Which brings me back to the Conservatives. I’m not an opponent, I should be a natural Tory voter. I don’t need a party that feels like “home,” and I’ve no intention of paying for a membership card. But I - like the majority of this country - want a party that actually represents me. Instead, what I keep hearing isn’t honesty, it’s platitudes. They apologise to each other, to MPs, to members - but rarely look the public in the eye. It’s the literal equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns.

And here’s the reality. Eighty percent of people in this country are in the middle. You saw it during Covid. I lost my father in the very month when the most people died. I saw the inside of a Covid ward, and it wasn’t pretty. My dad was vulnerable, he caught it, and he paid the price.

On one side, there are people who still argue we didn’t lock down hard enough, that saving lives should have outweighed everything else. On the other, people who still believe the country should have been more open, that the economic damage and the vulnerable deaths were the price to be paid. Like much of the country, I sit somewhere in the middle - even after the death of my dad. Funny thing about grief: it doesn’t make you extreme, it just makes you tired of extremes.

And here’s the kicker: when a party like Reform starts picking up voters from the middle - and it is - that should be a wake-up call. That’s a signal that people aren’t being listened to. Ignore it, and the Conservatives will find they no longer have a base to come back to.

Until they can look the electorate in the eye, admit their mistakes, explain why they happened, all the “mea culpas” and “lessons learned” speeches aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

 

[Willo]

There are two rules of thumb in politics, and they apply no matter the party.

First: when anyone says “I’ve been very clear” (or “she’s been very clear, he’s been very clear”), you can guarantee they haven’t been clear at all - and they’re about to answer a completely different question.

Second: nothing in politics is true until it’s officially been denied.

Party power doesn’t necessarily care about the individual voter. At the end of the day, politicians do what they must to hold on to power. And that’s why we’re in a race to the bottom, where people vote for the least worst option.

The Conservatives had 15 years in government. So when they point at the current bloc and say “look how bad they are”, it lacks a bit of self-awareness. Sit any politician down — Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, whatever - on a Sunday morning with Laura Kuenssberg, and you’ll hear the same evasions, the same tired lines. See rules one and two above.

For balance, let’s take Keir Starmer. I think he’s a walking disaster of a politician. Just look at Mandelson in the background, or the Angela Rayner saga. But ultimately, I’m not looking to vote for Starmer. I don’t politically align with him - and that’s the end of it.

Which brings me back to the Conservatives. I’m not an opponent, I should be a natural Tory voter. I don’t need a party that feels like “home,” and I’ve no intention of paying for a membership card. But I - like the majority of this country - want a party that actually represents me. Instead, what I keep hearing isn’t honesty, it’s platitudes. They apologise to each other, to MPs, to members - but rarely look the public in the eye. It’s the literal equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns.

And here’s the reality. Eighty percent of people in this country are in the middle. You saw it during Covid. I lost my father in the very month when the most people died. I saw the inside of a Covid ward, and it wasn’t pretty. My dad was vulnerable, he caught it, and he paid the price.

On one side, there are people who still argue we didn’t lock down hard enough, that saving lives should have outweighed everything else. On the other, people who still believe the country should have been more open, that the economic damage and the vulnerable deaths were the price to be paid. Like much of the country, I sit somewhere in the middle - even after the death of my dad. Funny thing about grief: it doesn’t make you extreme, it just makes you tired of extremes.

And here’s the kicker: when a party like Reform starts picking up voters from the middle - and it is - that should be a wake-up call. That’s a signal that people aren’t being listened to. Ignore it, and the Conservatives will find they no longer have a base to come back to.

Until they can look the electorate in the eye, admit their mistakes, explain why they happened, all the “mea culpas” and “lessons learned” speeches aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

Reform are the beneficiaries of a Labour government in peril and a Conservative Party that totally lost the trust of the electorate and suffered a humiliating defeat.
The British public wanted us to have a spell in opposition and we are using the time wisely to renew and regenerate our party. We have to work hard to regain the electorate's trust and we have always believed it would not be a short process. We continue unabated with our 'Policy Renewal Programme' whilst Reform continue with their hastily assembled knee-jerk reactions and outlandish pledges.Policies built on sand.