US Politics

I urge anyone still interested in the Trump assassination plots and attempts to watch this video, where it goes over what is known......it's more information from which you can draw your own conclusions.

The discussion starts at 1:44 into the video.

 
Stirlingsays said:
The UK government speaks about free speech while being the most authoritarian UK government on free speech in....well, I suspect for possibly hundreds of years.

The more left wing a government gets the more authoritarian it becomes.

It doesn't actually believe in free speech and nor did the Tory government before it......both called for and supported and passed into law restrictions on free speech.

In terms of the Tories.....Just part of why no one should trust them again.

But why do I refer to this?

Well, the UK government have just banned the latest people from entry to the UK and it's Hasan Piker, who is a Twitch streamer and political commentator and Cenk Uygur. Usually they are banning right wing people but this time it's left wing.

I think Piker is awful and while I respect some things Uygur has said in modern times he is also a committed leftist whose's values degrade the west.

Nevertheless agreeing with someone politically shouldn't have anything to do with banning them from travelling to the country.

Our governments literally put illegals into hotels and then in many instances give them citizenship after all that illegality to enter......In most cases they get to roam the country for years.

Yet because you're a right wing or left wing commentator you can't speak at some rally or convention? Unless you are someone pushing violence this shouldn't be a thing.

An absolute embarrassment to the history of the country.
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Visas are refused for many reasons.

Possibly acting in ways seen to be counter to the public good by refusing to answer some of the questions on the application is a good reason.
 
HKOwen said:
For me not very surprising though, F16's a re fairly low tech now, Taiwan's " Porcupine " defence strategy is now very heavily based on unmanned weapons. Don't think China would object to this particularly.

When I was living there in the late 80"s they were desperate for Harriers as they parked a lot of aircraft them in caves!
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What I found interesting too was the US inability to supply them - despite having been paid. I think it says over 20 billion paid for stuff that hasn't been delivered.
F-16s are as high tech or low tech as what they're fitted with. Fitted with the full integrated battlefield systems they're pretty high tech. These will likely be lower spec in electronics and software. I'm presuming without looking it up.
 
Stirlingsays said:
The UK government speaks about free speech while being the most authoritarian UK government on free speech in....well, I suspect for possibly hundreds of years.

The more left wing a government gets the more authoritarian it becomes.

It doesn't actually believe in free speech and nor did the Tory government before it......both called for and supported and passed into law restrictions on free speech.

In terms of the Tories.....Just part of why no one should trust them again.

But why do I refer to this?

Well, the UK government have just banned the latest people from entry to the UK and it's Hasan Piker, who is a Twitch streamer and political commentator and Cenk Uygur. Usually they are banning right wing people but this time it's left wing.

I think Piker is awful and while I respect some things Uygur has said in modern times he is also a committed leftist whose's values degrade the west.

Nevertheless agreeing with someone politically shouldn't have anything to do with banning them from travelling to the country.

Our governments literally put illegals into hotels and then in many instances give them citizenship after all that illegality to enter......In most cases they get to roam the country for years.

Yet because you're a right wing or left wing commentator you can't speak at some rally or convention? Unless you are someone pushing violence this shouldn't be a thing.

An absolute embarrassment to the history of the country.
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True.

I have no idea when this polar shift happened.

Hard left, always. The extremes ban everything to maintain power in a mandate vacuum.

But soft left? Usually the closest you can get to policies aligned with free speech. Now swamped by identitarian progressives and oppressive cancel culture.

It happened in our lifetime. I am sure there are countless books and essays written by people whose views I would not treat with suspicion who can answer that question. But, absent such comment, I am going to say I do not have a clue.
 
This is the text of the MoU.

1- The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran and their allies in the current war by signing this MoU, declare the immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and undertake from now on not to initiate any war or any military operation against each other, and to refrain from the threat or use of force against each other, and ensuring the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Lebanon. Final deal will confirm the permanent termination of the war on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and other provisions of this paragraph.

2- The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran undertake to respect each other’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and to refrain from interfering in each other’s internal affairs.

3- The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran commit to negotiating and achieving the final deal in maximum 60 days, extendable with mutual consent.

4- Immediately upon the signing of this MoU, the United States of America will begin the removal of its naval blockade and any disturbances or impediments against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and will fully end the naval blockade within 30 days. During this period, the traffic of vessels will be in proportion to the numbers of pre-war traffic being restored by the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America further undertakes to remove its forces from the proximity of the Islamic Republic of Iran within 30 days after the final deal.

5- Upon the signing of this MoU, the Islamic Republic of Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge for 60 days only from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman and vice versa. The traffic of commercial vessels will immediately start, and considering the need for removing the technical and military obstacles and demining by the Islamic Republic of Iran, will be instated within 30 days. The Islamic Republic of Iran will conduct dialogue with the Sultanate of Oman to define the future administration and maritime services in the Strait of Hormuz in discussion with other Persian Gulf littoral states in line with the applicable international law and the sovereign rights of coastal states of the Strait of Hormuz.

6- The United States of America undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least $300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of a final deal within 60 days. All required licenses, waivers and permissions needed for the relevant financial transactions will be granted by the United States of America.

7- The United States of America undertakes to terminate all types of sanctions against the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the United Nations Security Council resolutions, i.e. IAEA Board of Governors resolutions and all unilateral US sanctions, primary and secondary, in an agreed-upon schedule as part of the final deal. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America acknowledge the critical importance of the sanctions-termination issue abovementioned, and expressed their intentions to immediately address these issues in the negotiations, in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

8- The Islamic Republic of Iran reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpiled enriched material, pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon in accordance with the schedule mentioned in Paragraph Seven, with the minimum methodology to be downblending on site under the supervision of the IAEA. The two parties also agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran's nuclear needs based on a satisfactory framework being agreed upon in the final deal. The final deal will confirm the provisions of this paragraph. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran acknowledge the critical importance of the nuclear issues abovementioned and express their intention to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

9- Pending the final deal, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree to maintain the status quo. The Islamic Republic of Iran will maintain the current status quo of its nuclear program, and the United States of America will not impose any new sanctions and will not deploy additional forces in the region.

10- The United States of America undertakes that immediately upon the signing of this MoU until the termination of sanctions, the US Department of Treasury will issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products and derivatives, and all associated services, including banking transactions, insurances, transportation, etc.

11- The United States of America undertakes to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran upon the implementation of this MoU. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will mutually agree on the procedures related to the release of these funds during the negotiations. Such funds, either retained in the original account or transferred, shall be made fully usable for payment to any ultimate beneficiary designated by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America undertakes to issue all necessary licenses and authorizations accordingly.

12- The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree that an executive mechanism will be established to monitor the successful implementation of this MoU and the future compliance of the final deal.

13- After signing this MoU and subject to the beginning of the implementation of Paragraphs 1, 4, 5, 10 and 11 of this MoU and the continuing implementation of these measures, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will start negotiations regarding the final deal exclusively on the other paragraphs.

14- The final deal will be endorsed by a binding [UN Security Council] resolution.
 
Release of sanctions (I'm not a fan of them) and Arab states pumping 300 billion of newly built infrastructure into Iran.

That just tells me that Iran will just buy whatever they need......Having a nuke means they can't get attacked like they just have been. Of course they are going to plan for them....probably weren't before but definitely now.

I can't see Israel accepting any of this....even though they caused the war......I can see them nuking Iran before they would let them have one.
 
I think Trump made a massive mistake attacking Iran.

I also think that Israel is a psycho state run by a government that is scared to stop fighting because peace means court cases.

However, Iran can't be allowed to hold the west hostage by closing the strait because their proxies are being attacked....and to be fair civilians and residential infrastructure.

Yes, if we have to go to war, I blame Israel for this because it demands that foreigners shed blood on their behalf fighting their wars.

They are no friends of the west.

But the west must act in their best interests and keep that strait open.....If that means the west's troops take over Iran then it's that or a great depression.

Afterwards Israeli influence should be banished from government and their lobbyists forced to register as foreign.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
I think Trump made a massive mistake attacking Iran.

I also think that Israel is a psycho state run by a government that is scared to stop fighting because peace means court cases.

However, Iran can't be allowed to hold the west hostage by closing the strait because their proxies are being attacked....and to be fair civilians and residential infrastructure.

Yes, if we have to go to war, I blame Israel for this because it demands that foreigners shed blood on their behalf fighting their wars.

They are no friends of the west.

But the west must act in their best interests and keep that strait open.....If that means the west's troops take over Iran then it's that or a great depression.

Afterwards Israeli influence should be banished from government and their lobbyists forced to register as foreign lobbys.
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This war has been an unmitigated disaster for Trump. He cannot control Israel. It has cost Americans a fortune with nothing to show and left the Iranian regime essentially how it was.
I have a cousin who emigrated 35 years ago to Michigan for work. Was a big Trump fan. He says his popularity in that region has plummeted. Plus it has a high Catholic population- and when he started on the pope he lost a load more support.
How can anyone spin this deal as a good one? And as you say, Israel has gone rogue.
 
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