The Politics of 'Climate-change'

[Living In Hope]

The Labour Party always do the right thing .

I do not classify impoverishing Britain and its citizens with environmental policies which damage us economically as doing the right thing. With the USA, China, India and Russia all uninterested in fighting climate change, we cannot stop it, so the right thing in my book is to ensure that we are economically robust enough to protect Britons against the adverse impacts of climate change. Of course we can aim to be thought leaders, but we need to operate in the real world where our influence on these nations is minimal to zero. China produces c33% of the world's CO2 emissions, the UK less than 1%.

But I am sure the eco-warriors of Britain will be congratulating one another as the country achieves net zero whilst falling into abject poverty and having no resources to counter flooding and heatwaves.

 

[Spindle]

I have actually. It may be a minor issue to some but to many it is somewhat a bigger issue

Why is it a bigger issue? You either work in the oil industry or you are an ideologist, and that latter of sucking off the oil execs for the sake of it makes you no different from the lefty mentalists.

The oil industry played an absolute blinder when they made oil a left wing right wing issue. Both sides bought in, total morons because it's NOTHING to do with any of it.

Imagine if the same vested interests were in CFCs. We'd 100% all be dying of skin cancers and going blind.

 

[Spindle]

And, ffs, we rely on oil and it means we support Islam financially.


*Of course you could be a nuke guy, I dunno, that's even more subsidy 😉

 

[Spindle]

I do not classify impoverishing Britain and its citizens with environmental policies which damage us economically as doing the right thing. With the USA, China, India and Russia all uninterested in fighting climate change, we cannot stop it, so the right thing in my book is to ensure that we are economically robust enough to protect Britons against the adverse impacts of climate change. Of course we can aim to be thought leaders, but we need to operate in the real world where our influence on these nations is minimal to zero. China produces c33% of the world's CO2 emissions, the UK less than 1%.

But I am sure the eco-warriors of Britain will be congratulating one another as the country achieves net zero whilst falling into abject poverty and having no resources to counter flooding and heatwaves.

This is idiotic, sorry but it absolutely is.

First, China KNOW the danger and they are absolute world leaders in conversion. They have also planted nearly 80 BILLION trees over the past 40 years as environmental protection. Second with China, WHO do they make stuff for exactly? Do you think they need all of that power for domestic products? You can literally blame that power consumption on western demand, but let's not.

The USA are transferring energy from fossil fuels, their investment profiles for green is rocketing but dropping for fossil fuels. They have shut down half of their coal plants in a decade.

India are a poor country per head. Modi has to improve lives of his people and part of that is power generation. He has loads of cheap coal. What he didn't have was a AAA S&P rating so to borrow to invest in power is way way more expensive that coal. The cause is western. However they have pushed hard on this and now over half of their capacity is renewables - that is WELL AHEAD of the Paris target.

Russia. They are a pariah state without any interest given that their economy and personal wealth relies on exports.



You remind me of the Vichy french.

 

[Living In Hope]

This is idiotic, sorry but it absolutely is.

First, China KNOW the danger and they are absolute world leaders in conversion. They have also planted nearly 80 BILLION trees over the past 40 years as environmental protection. Second with China, WHO do they make stuff for exactly? Do you think they need all of that power for domestic products? You can literally blame that power consumption on western demand, but let's not.

The USA are transferring energy from fossil fuels, their investment profiles for green is rocketing but dropping for fossil fuels. They have shut down half of their coal plants in a decade.

India are a poor country per head. Modi has to improve lives of his people and part of that is power generation. He has loads of cheap coal. What he didn't have was a AAA S&P rating so to borrow to invest in power is way way more expensive that coal. The cause is western. However they have pushed hard on this and now over half of their capacity is renewables - that is WELL AHEAD of the Paris target.

Russia. They are a pariah state without any interest given that their economy and personal wealth relies on exports.

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You remind me of the Vichy french.

What a bizarre response.

The fact is that China builds more new coal plants than the rest of the world combined, and coal delivers over half of its energy needs. Factually it is responsible for 1/3rd of the world's emissions, but that's okay because it plants trees. Its priority is economic dominance, and that is what drives its policies and its involvement in renewables.

The USA is similarly driven by economic interest, and its current president, the most powerful man in the world, is a staunch advocate of "drill baby drill". In other words the leadership is driving support for fossil fuels. Surprisingly only responsible for 12% of the world's emissions.

Modi "has to improve the lives of his people and...has loads of cheap coal" (economic interest perhaps ?). The 3rd highest producer of emissions in the world, with Russia 4th (together 13%). I make no comment on what Modi's priorities ought to be, but Indian emissions continue to grow, and your comment about coal to me simply supports my view. Expect increasing emissions not reducing ones from both of these.

So we can of course try to influence, but reducing our 0.8% makes no difference. Participating in a genuine global consensus for climate action could do, but there isn't one.

Of course it is easier to insult than discuss respectfully - sadly that is a sign of our times, but can you please explain to me what on earth the Vichy French have to do with this ?

 

[cryrst]

Problem is that every ounce of carbon a tree absorbs is trapped until it dies and then bosh. Have it back.
If it’s to be taken seriously nuclear is really the only way forwards for both meeting demand and clean.
A slight issue is getting rid of the toxic waste. 💁

 

[Spindle]

It's why I don't bother with these threads. You face deniers excusers and defeatists.

Don't really agree with nukes. It's not recycled energy, it's new heat, has a half life costs loads, and needs to be coastal which is a risk with sea levels

 

[cryrst]

It's why I don't bother with these threads. You face deniers excusers and defeatists.

Don't really agree with nukes. It's not recycled energy, it's new heat, has a half life costs loads, and needs to be coastal which is a risk with sea levels

That’s not exactly true. I haven’t seen much info on what’s man made or what’s natural. With both a reasoned discussion can be had. They must know because the sums atm only point the finger at man made. Temperatures rising could happen anyway. No one I read denies we are warming. It’s the above stats I want to see to stop being a denier, excuses or defeatist as you so elegantly wrote !

 

[silvertop]

Problem is that every ounce of carbon a tree absorbs is trapped until it dies and then bosh. Have it back.
If it’s to be taken seriously nuclear is really the only way forwards for both meeting demand and clean.
A slight issue is getting rid of the toxic waste. 💁

Not scientific. The carbon in dead trees breaks down and is returned to the earth.

What did you think coal was?

Some is released when it burns which is a double whammy for the environment. Hence the policy focus on slash and burn to grow palm oil etc

 

[CPFCSaturn]

That’s not exactly true. I haven’t seen much info on what’s man made or what’s natural. With both a reasoned discussion can be had. They must know because the sums atm only point the finger at man made. Temperatures rising could happen anyway. No one I read denies we are warming. It’s the above stats I want to see to stop being a denier, excuses or defeatist as you so elegantly wrote !

Because what would be the purpose of 'pointing the finger' at something entirely uncontrollable?

 

[cryrst]

Because what would be the purpose of 'pointing the finger' at something entirely uncontrollable?

Because the finger pointing at the controllable may be less harsh !

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It is not regardless. temperature follows CO2 levels. It's a direct causation, and arguing otherwise is no different to arguing that the earth is flat.

It's not that simple, but the fact is that global warming will happen irrespective of man. The only qustion is how much more as a result of emissions.

We have to focus on adaptation because the climate is changing no matter what. There isn't much point in having your electric car, solar panels and heat pump if you cook to death in a 50 degree heat wave.

Staying cool is a must. Ask those rich Arabs.

 

[Spindle]

There are alternative power sources but they've been opposed because of vested interests. Unfortunately a side effect of this is to hand more funds to Islam via SA.

Yes, they fund expansion. Oil money expands Islam.

 

[ASCPFC]

What a bizarre response.

The fact is that China builds more new coal plants than the rest of the world combined, and coal delivers over half of its energy needs. Factually it is responsible for 1/3rd of the world's emissions, but that's okay because it plants trees. Its priority is economic dominance, and that is what drives its policies and its involvement in renewables.

The USA is similarly driven by economic interest, and its current president, the most powerful man in the world, is a staunch advocate of "drill baby drill". In other words the leadership is driving support for fossil fuels. Surprisingly only responsible for 12% of the world's emissions.

Modi "has to improve the lives of his people and...has loads of cheap coal" (economic interest perhaps ?). The 3rd highest producer of emissions in the world, with Russia 4th (together 13%). I make no comment on what Modi's priorities ought to be, but Indian emissions continue to grow, and your comment about coal to me simply supports my view. Expect increasing emissions not reducing ones from both of these.

So we can of course try to influence, but reducing our 0.8% makes no difference. Participating in a genuine global consensus for climate action could do, but there isn't one.

Of course it is easier to insult than discuss respectfully - sadly that is a sign of our times, but can you please explain to me what on earth the Vichy French have to do with this ?

Bloody Vichy - get everywhere. Can't take a stroll down the road without bumping into them.