"Horses For Courses"

Willo said:
Thomas Frank lost 8 of his first 10 games in charge, Brentford persevered with him and he secured promotion for them to the PL.
Andoni Iraola only won 1 of his first 10 PL games at Bournemouth.
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Stop it Willo people dont like facts on here you should know that by now 😇
 
Willo said:
Thomas Frank lost 8 of his first 10 games in charge, Brentford persevered with him and he secured promotion for them to the PL.
Andoni Iraola only won 1 of his first 10 PL games at Bournemouth.
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Maybe so, but those managers didn't have the extra burden of European competition with a lesser first 11.
Sage sure has his work cut out, as would any manager.
 
park the bus said:
Lech Poznan, Leeds, Forest, Lyon, and then on the 18th Brighton. By then we will know if there has been any improvement and if not I suspect a poor result against Brighton will be the catalyst.
I would prefer that Sage gets it right and stays in the post, but if we pick up only a couple of points (or none!) from these league encounters then that is certified relegation form and Parish doesn't usually mess about when his investment is threatened.
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I’ve looked at our fixtures and settled on the 31st October, after we’ve played Spurs away.

I’m fully behind persevering with Sage and giving him time but will take a long hard look at it then if we aren’t showing signs of revival.
 
Canterbury Palace said:
Yeah good point actually Lanzo. Sorry mate.
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Its your choice, which you are obviously entitled too, but for me you have no cover for the fullbacks at all, 2 against one all the time, you certainly wouldn't want them going forward, the back three would be more exposed as they are now, only my opinion.
 
There’s been much discussion on our defensive record and whether our defenders individually are good enough.

I watched the Chelsea game last night and it gave me food for thought.

Their back 3 was Fofana, Lacroix and Colwill which in theory has an excellent balance of pace, strength, skill and experience.
They are individually very good players too.
However, as a unit they were all over the place, not for the first time this season.
The same observation could be made of Spurs too who also have good individuals at centre back but can’t defend properly.

The art of defending seems to be largely disappearing with full backs assessed more on their attacking prowess than defensive resilience, and centre backs rated on their ability to play out from the back.
It’s noteworthy that there are not too many old fashioned defensive midfielders either; the ‘destroyer’ whose sole role was to negate the creativity of the opponent is largely a dying breed.

What the above tells me is that the key to proper defending is organisation and the players operating as a tight unit without leaving gaps; it’s less about he ability of the individuals than the strength of the collective.
 
PatrickA said:
There’s been much discussion on our defensive record and whether our defenders individually are good enough.

I watched the Chelsea game last night and it gave me food for thought.

Their back 3 was Fofana, Lacroix and Colwill which in theory has an excellent balance of pace, strength, skill and experience.
They are individually very good players too.
However, as a unit they were all over the place, not for the first time this season.
The same observation could be made of Spurs too who also have good individuals at centre back but can’t defend properly.

The art of defending seems to be largely disappearing with full backs assessed more on their attacking prowess than defensive resilience, and centre backs rated on their ability to play out from the back.
It’s noteworthy that there are not too many old fashioned defensive midfielders either; the ‘destroyer’ whose sole role was to negate the creativity of the opponent is largely a dying breed.

What the above tells me is that the key to proper defending is organisation and the players operating as a tight unit without leaving gaps; it’s less about he ability of the individuals than the strength of the collective.
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TBF Its been like that for years.

Its why I always react when people on ere are calling for a proper DM. Or calling for Kamada to be swapped for Hughes because Hughes will 'tackle everything in sight'. Thats not the game any more. Its all about organisation, blocking passing lanes, avoiding the oppo getting the ball in danger areas, but letting the have in statistically less threatening areas.

And re the defensive unit. Its more than the back 3 its how the midfielders shield, the starting position etc etc. Its why Clyne, and Ward were able to slot so easily into a Glasner back 3 and look completely fine. They were never really exposed to have to 'defend'. But also the same reason that Lacroix goes into a Chelsea team lacking the same protection and looks a bit lost.

Interestingly when you look at tackles per 90, we currently have the top 2. (but also does a god job dispelling the myth that that there are DMs in the league that are making 20 tackles a match)

1789801866057.webp
 
PatrickA said:
There’s been much discussion on our defensive record and whether our defenders individually are good enough.

I watched the Chelsea game last night and it gave me food for thought.

Their back 3 was Fofana, Lacroix and Colwill which in theory has an excellent balance of pace, strength, skill and experience.
They are individually very good players too.
However, as a unit they were all over the place, not for the first time this season.
The same observation could be made of Spurs too who also have good individuals at centre back but can’t defend properly.

The art of defending seems to be largely disappearing with full backs assessed more on their attacking prowess than defensive resilience, and centre backs rated on their ability to play out from the back.
It’s noteworthy that there are not too many old fashioned defensive midfielders either; the ‘destroyer’ whose sole role was to negate the creativity of the opponent is largely a dying breed.

What the above tells me is that the key to proper defending is organisation and the players operating as a tight unit without leaving gaps; it’s less about he ability of the individuals than the strength of the collective.
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Its the system again, asking CBs to be FBs, and only having 2 in CM, i really dont understand why managers play it, it has no success in any major leagues in Europe, it just leaves gaps all over the place.
 
Lanzo-Ad said:
Its the system again, asking CBs to be FBs, and only having 2 in CM, i really dont understand why managers play it, it has no success in any major leagues in Europe, it just leaves gaps all over the place.
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I have to say sometimes it looks 'ar.e about face' with defenders asked to attack and attackers asked to defend.

Perhaps a reinvention of the Total Football of Cruyff's Dutch team of the 70s?

Mind you that was some team.

The funny thing is that the best team in the country, Arsenal, play with an old fashioned back 4 with defenders who love to defend, a workmanlike midfield with Rice and Lewis Skelly providing some muscle and wide forwards to stretch the play.

It will never catch on.
 
PatrickA said:
There’s been much discussion on our defensive record and whether our defenders individually are good enough.

I watched the Chelsea game last night and it gave me food for thought.

Their back 3 was Fofana, Lacroix and Colwill which in theory has an excellent balance of pace, strength, skill and experience.
They are individually very good players too.
However, as a unit they were all over the place, not for the first time this season.
The same observation could be made of Spurs too who also have good individuals at centre back but can’t defend properly.

The art of defending seems to be largely disappearing with full backs assessed more on their attacking prowess than defensive resilience, and centre backs rated on their ability to play out from the back.
It’s noteworthy that there are not too many old fashioned defensive midfielders either; the ‘destroyer’ whose sole role was to negate the creativity of the opponent is largely a dying breed.

What the above tells me is that the key to proper defending is organisation and the players operating as a tight unit without leaving gaps; it’s less about he ability of the individuals than the strength of the collective.
Click to expand...
I’ve been saying that for years, good old fashioned organisation, tackling and getting your nut on the ball when a cross or corner comes over seem like they’re things of the past. Defenders are frightened to tackle because every bloody tackle these days is a foul or a five minute VAR hold up to see if it’s a penalty. Most ‘defenders’ are expected to tippy tappy their way out of trouble when they get the ball rather than launch it out of trouble, so this creates chaos a lot of the time
 
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