FORMATION CHANGE AND WHO GOES WHERE?

[RubinsCube]

I think the problem with Wharton is that we expect him to be a Gerrard, someone who will drive the team and create waves. Unforunately he seems to be a surfer. He needs the team to perform so that he can. Probably why he did well a year or so ago when we had Eze, Guehi etc and why he will thrive at a Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal. Sadly do not see him staying for another season even if the team miraculously turns into prime Palace 2024.

I think one of the main issues with Wharton is a simple one: we have had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent, so he has had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent.

More broadly, the team is not playing to his strengths even when we do have the ball.

He needs runners and options so that he can thread the passes which make him such a dangerous player; the shape of the team is all over the place and there are few discernible patterns for him to anticipate higher up the pitch (I think this was one of Glasner's strengths as a coach and one of the things we are missing this year).

 

[sprites]

I think one of the main issues with Wharton is a simple one: we have had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent, so he has had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent.

More broadly, the team is not playing to his strengths even when we do have the ball.

He needs runners and options so that he can thread the passes which make him such a dangerous player; the shape of the team is all over the place and there are few discernible patterns for him to anticipate higher up the pitch (I think this was one of Glasner's strengths as a coach and one of the things we are missing this year).

Also, he's currently being burdened with too much other responsibility in the form of captaincy and defensive duties. Thankfully he's now free of the captaincy...so put a decent defensive midfielder beside him to do the dirty work, then let him play 10m higher and create.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

You put a quick winger and forward on this lineup and we are dead. The only player with pace in the back 4 is Mitchell.

Pace is only good if you leave space behind, if you defend deeper it nullifies the effectiveness of pace

 

[thai-eagle]

Given that we've lost a lot of experience in Riad and Tomiyasu, could a new formation be the answer to fix what is really the only thing wrong with the team -the defence?

Putting aside whatever manager we think should be in place, do we have any favourite set ups that we think might best suit the available personnel from now until January?

Mine would be this;

----------------------HENDERSON------------------------
MINGUEZA-----RICHARDS-----CANVOT-----MITCHELL
--------------KAMADA------------WHARTON-------------
--------------------------PINO----------------------------
----------SARR-------------------------MCNEIL----------
------------------------MATETA---------------------------

With Mingeuza, we should have some better defensive stability and some great balls for Sarr. Richards and Canvot provide a decent blend of aerial ability and pace. Kamada and Wharton provide a good defensive shield and passing base. Pino would run riot with the space of an advanced midfield role. We'd have access to McNeil's superb crosses if he is played on the left. Mateta should be well-serviced by through balls, crosses and runners. JSL and Nketiah would score goals in this system.

Thoughts? Alternatives?

Would not mind Lerma in to strenghten midfield - Pino on the bench. Or Lerma for Canvot in defence..the rest of team sounds good.

 

[taylors lovechild]

What we really need is Doucoure back to full fitness. He's the only proper defensive midfielder in the squad, in my view. Watching him against Fulham, he just knew where to be and how to block out the opposition. He never seems to need to go to ground, and he can pass, too. Hughes gives away too many fouls, players go past him too easily, and is even slower than Wharton (which would be a big issue given most of centre-backs aren't that quick either), plus he's really more of a creative midfielder, similar to Wharton. Timber doesn't have the discipline to sit in, but could really thrive as a box-to-box player in a midfield trio. Lerma is probably the weakest passer of the lot and, for me, only really looks suited to playing at the back now. Obviously, it's a massive ask to expect Doucoure to suddenly start playing regularly again, but if he could...

Henderson

Mingueza Richards Disasi Mitchell

Timber Doucoure Wharton

Pino Mateta Kamada​

 

[thai-eagle]

What we really need is Doucoure back to full fitness. He's the only proper defensive midfielder in the squad, in my view. Watching him against Fulham, he just knew where to be and how to block out the opposition. He never seems to need to go to ground, and he can pass, too. Hughes gives away too many fouls, players go past him too easily, and is even slower than Wharton (which would be a big issue given most of centre-backs aren't that quick either), plus he's really more of a creative midfielder, similar to Wharton. Timber doesn't have the discipline to sit in, but could really thrive as a box-to-box player in a midfield trio. Lerma is probably the weakest passer of the lot and, for me, only really looks suited to playing at the back now. Obviously, it's a massive ask to expect Doucoure to suddenly start playing regularly again, but if he could...

Henderson

Mingueza Richards Disasi Mitchell

Timber Doucoure Wharton

Pino Mateta Kamada​

Would have taken Pino out, Lerma in midfield and Osora on top when Mateta is banned...

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

What we really need is Doucoure back to full fitness. He's the only proper defensive midfielder in the squad, in my view. Watching him against Fulham, he just knew where to be and how to block out the opposition. He never seems to need to go to ground, and he can pass, too. Hughes gives away too many fouls, players go past him too easily, and is even slower than Wharton (which would be a big issue given most of centre-backs aren't that quick either), plus he's really more of a creative midfielder, similar to Wharton. Timber doesn't have the discipline to sit in, but could really thrive as a box-to-box player in a midfield trio. Lerma is probably the weakest passer of the lot and, for me, only really looks suited to playing at the back now. Obviously, it's a massive ask to expect Doucoure to suddenly start playing regularly again, but if he could...

Henderson

Mingueza Richards Disasi Mitchell

Timber Doucoure Wharton

Pino Mateta Kamada​

That would make a massive difference

 

[DenTyler]

Why is it that we can all see there needs to be a change formation. All the pundits who I have listened to say we need a change in formation. The f***ing maths say we need a change in formation... yet we never change formation.

 

[JessieJ]

Why is it that we can all see there needs to be a change formation. All the pundits who I have listened to say we need a change in formation. The f***ing maths say we need a change in formation... yet we never change formation.

make a sentence including the words, Ostrich, Head and Sand. You could throw in "stubborn" if you like.

 

[elgin eeagle]

I think one of the main issues with Wharton is a simple one: we have had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent, so he has had less of the ball in areas dangerous to the opponent.

More broadly, the team is not playing to his strengths even when we do have the ball.

He needs runners and options so that he can thread the passes which make him such a dangerous player; the shape of the team is all over the place and there are few discernible patterns for him to anticipate higher up the pitch (I think this was one of Glasner's strengths as a coach and one of the things we are missing this year).

I agree and its why players like Munoz and Sarr were so crucial to the way the team performed. Mitchell has got into more dangerous positions this season though and Pino is much improved as well. Id like to see how it does in a few weeks when we get Mateta & Sarr back, and Hopefully Osorio involved more. These would all help Wharton i feel.

At the back if we are sticking with the formation i think id like to see Mitchell Chilwell Disasi Richards Mingueza. Although Richards cant concentrate for a whole half in the absence of Tomiyasu he probably gets in ahead of Canvot until we can hopefully ship both out in January. It isnt a PL quality defence anymore but thats probably as strong as we can make it. Chilwell and Mitchell can probably form a strong understanding. Im more worried about the right hand side but hopefully Tomiyasu will improve things if he isnt dead. So without big starters like Sarr, Mateta, Strand Larsen, Timber and Tomiyasu, against Hoffenheim i would like to see:

...............Henderson
....Richards Disasi Chilwell
Mingueza…................Mitchell
.........Hughes...Wharton
Osorio.......Nketiah.........Pino

Something like this would hopefully give Wharton more running options with Hughes or Lerma acting as the shield for the defence.