Israel v Hamas

[Spindle]

The same as any Western state who are victims of a terrorist attacks: enforce their borders, conduct targeted military operations against those responsible, respect your commitments to international law and try not to commit warm crimes.

Again, the framing that this was only possible path was for to Israel to walk is just flawed.

The UK and USA never did that. In fact, in war, nobody ever does.

 

[Spindle]

If true then they stop bombing and use their superb intelligence and surveillance capabilities to gradually eliminate those involved, whilst strengthening their defences, maintaining a blockage of military hardware and allowing aid to get to the innocent.

It requires a different mindset, which does exist in Israel but not in the current government. The current tactics have a different agenda to simply defeating Hamas in plain sight and all the excuses in the world cannot disguise them.

Held to different standards.

I notice that "Indiana" has disappeared, can't think why

 

[cryrst]

If true then they stop bombing and use their superb intelligence and surveillance capabilities to gradually eliminate those involved, whilst strengthening their defences, maintaining a blockage of military hardware and allowing aid to get to the innocent.

It requires a different mindset, which does exist in Israel but not in the current government. The current tactics have a different agenda to simply defeating Hamas in plain sight and all the excuses in the world cannot disguise them.

Why do you think they should strengthen their defences. What could possibly happen if they don’t !!!

 

[HKOwen]

The UN's definition of genocide, outlined in the 1948 Genocide Convention, refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. These acts include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction, imposing measures to prevent births, and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

This definition has no numerical aspect, it is all about intent. One person being killed, injured or suffering mental harm is a genocide if the intent was as defined here.

You can make this suit any narrative you want to promote. For the current Gaza tragedy to be defined as a genocide using this definition , the test would be the prove Israel has intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group.. So which is it, national, ethnical, racial or religious?

On the other side of this, Hamas has stated intent to destroy and eradicate the State of Israel and its people, as does Iran and all it's proxies. So in the case of Hamas and Iran the genocide is self admitted.
October 7th was an act of genocide under the UN definition.

The Russian kidnapping of Ukranian children would be a genocidal act, the Yazidis have been subject to genocide, the Armenians were etc etc

The genocide " experts " are all putting their opinions forward which as with all opinions does not make them intrinsically correct.

I expected pushback from the usual suspects on this post

 

[HKOwen]

The same as any Western state who are victims of a terrorist attacks: enforce their borders, conduct targeted military operations against those responsible, respect your commitments to international law and try not to commit warm crimes.

Again, the framing that this was only possible path was for to Israel to walk is just flawed.

So if your enemy is using human shields and sheltering in hospitals and schools does that mean no attempt can be made to kill that enemy until they have moved to another location ?

I agree non combatant casualties must be minimised as far as possible.

Hamas has spect 20 years indoctrinating the population of Gaza , is someone who does not carry a gun but oversees the hiding of hostages in tunnels a non combatant? In my view they would be a legitimate target.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I'm not giving you exact figures, I'm just saying that the population is increasing, not decreasing. That's all you need to disprove the ludicrous claim that the Gazans are being deliberately wiped out

And I’m asking you how anyone could possibly know that in an active warzone? You clearly don’t have an answer or any data to back it up - just saying something on repeat doesn’t make it true.

No doubt you’ll keep repeating it regardless because as I’ve said many times, still being in defence of Israel’s action requires fundamental dishonesty.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

And we did this after 7/7? Serious question how could you conduct military operations against those responsible when you may not know their nationality? Thousands crossing the Channel undocumented Could carry out similar attacks, where do you direct your military operations against those responsible?

Blimey, there’s going around a point and then there’s this 🤣

I was asked what Israel should do.

Obviously if there is no known state affiliation to the terrorists who attack you, it’s going to require a different response.

 

[georgenorman]

Blimey, there’s going around a point and then there’s this 🤣

I was asked what Israel should do.

Obviously if there is no known state affiliation to the terrorists who attack you, it’s going to require a different response.

Iran is the main state involved in facilitating Islamic Fascism - with additional off-stage support from moronic Irish trios, Rasta nutters with silly names and gullible fools on online forums.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So if your enemy is using human shields and sheltering in hospitals and schools does that mean no attempt can be made to kill that enemy until they have moved to another location ?

I agree non combatant casualties must be minimised as far as possible.

Hamas has spect 20 years indoctrinating the population of Gaza , is someone who does not carry a gun but oversees the hiding of hostages in tunnels a non combatant? In my view they would be a legitimate target.

It certainly doesn’t permit you to bomb it to the ground.

In a 20-year campaign in Afghanistan, there was one hospital hit by a US air strike - 16 US military members faced disciplinary action as a result, and the Pentagon described it as a ‘tragic mistake’.

Israel have destroyed 34 hospitals in Gaza in 18 months, and people are sat here presenting that as perfectly acceptable.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Iran is the main state involved in facilitating Islamic Fascism - with additional off-stage support from moronic Irish trios, Rasta nutters with silly names and gullible fools on online forums.

And there was precisely nothing linking Iran to the 7/7 bombers, who were all domestic terrorists.

 

[HKOwen]

It certainly doesn’t permit you to bomb it to the ground.

In a 20-year campaign in Afghanistan, there was one hospital hit by a US air strike - 16 US military members faced disciplinary action as a result, and the Pentagon described it as a ‘tragic mistake’.

Israel have destroyed 34 hospitals in Gaza in 18 months, and people are sat here presenting that as perfectly acceptable.

So you have no answer to how to get your human shielded enemy, only don't so what you're doing now, and news flash, Gaza is not Afghanistan.

 

[HKOwen]

And there was precisely nothing linking Iran to the 7/7 bombers, who were all domestic terrorists.

Pat on the back for Iran then, they missed that one.

Seems you don't actually have a problem with Iran's state terrorism generally, how about the Iranians who came to the UK to cause explosions in London recently, can you at least unconditionally condemn them.

 

[georgenorman]

And there was precisely nothing linking Iran to the 7/7 bombers, who were all domestic terrorists.

Apart from them sharing the same ideology and visceral hatred of Jews and the West you mean?
Iranian state newspapers said that the bombings were a setup by British or American authorities seeking to justify the War on Terror and harass Muslims in Europe.

 

[Spiderman]

Apart from them sharing the same ideology and visceral hatred of Jews and the West you mean?
Iranian state newspapers said that the bombings were a setup by British or American authorities seeking to justify the War on Terror and harass Muslims in Europe.

Don’t give him ideas

 

[Spiderman]

Blimey, there’s going around a point and then there’s this 🤣

I was asked what Israel should do.

Obviously if there is no known state affiliation to the terrorists who attack you, it’s going to require a different response.

Can’t see what was wrong with my post but hey, if my posts bore you so much, put me on ignore

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Can’t see what was wrong with my post but hey, if my posts bore you so much, put me on ignore

7/7 was a domestic terror incident which had absolutely nothing to do with anything being discussed - and as evidenced above, allows for distraction and complete whatabouttery.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Apart from them sharing the same ideology and visceral hatred of Jews and the West you mean?
Iranian state newspapers said that the bombings were a setup by British or American authorities seeking to justify the War on Terror and harass Muslims in Europe.

I really don't want to engage with the distraction, but this is just too hard to ignore.

Are you suggesting that any action committed by an Muslim on the planet can and should be linked to Iran..? Because 'ideology'..?

The bar is getting lower and lower 🤣

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Pat on the back for Iran then, they missed that one.

Seems you don't actually have a problem with Iran's state terrorism generally, how about the Iranians who came to the UK to cause explosions in London recently, can you at least unconditionally condemn them.

We're now at:

'Seems you don't have a problem with Iran's terrorism, since you've pointed out that we're discussing a terrorist incident for which Iran had precisely 0 involvement. How about another completely unrelated event... do you condemn that one?'

The bar has never been so low.

 

[georgenorman]

I really don't want to engage with the distraction, but this is just too hard to ignore.

Are you suggesting that any action committed by an Muslim on the planet can and should be linked to Iran..? Because 'ideology'..?

The bar is getting lower and lower 🤣

More or less, yes. Attacks on Israel, 9/11, 7/7 and all the numerous atrocities carried out worldwide by Islamists are all part of the war on non-Muslims being waged by Islamic Fascism, the main state involved being Iran.

 

[Spindle]

And I’m asking you how anyone could possibly know that in an active warzone? You clearly don’t have an answer or any data to back it up - just saying something on repeat doesn’t make it true.

No doubt you’ll keep repeating it regardless because as I’ve said many times, still being in defence of Israel’s action requires fundamental dishonesty.

Great. If that's what we agree on then why are you and your fellow supporters pressing the claim of genocide when you know that you have no proof. I've only reacted to the claim from your group