Israel v Hamas

[Penge Eagle]

It would be a step forward if you would at least acknowledge them as disproportionate, rather than fall back on the same excuse that as other might be more disproportionate they can be ignored.

So let’s try again. Is everything that Israel has done, and continues to do, proportionate to the threat it perceives or is there anything at all that you think is not?

As this thread is specifically about Israel and Hamas nobody should be saying anything about other atrocities.

It is not disproportionate and you misunderstand the term.

Nice deflection but my point about other atrocities stands. There is a double standard and obsession with Israel.

 

[Spindle]

It would be a step forward if you would at least acknowledge them as disproportionate, rather than fall back on the same excuse that as other might be more disproportionate they can be ignored.

So let’s try again. Is everything that Israel has done, and continues to do, proportionate to the threat it perceives or is there anything at all that you think is not?

As this thread is specifically about Israel and Hamas nobody should be saying anything about other atrocities.

What does proportion look like to you? What exactly are you expecting? What do you consider acceptable?

 

[georgenorman]

It would be a step forward if you would at least acknowledge them as disproportionate, rather than fall back on the same excuse that as other might be more disproportionate they can be ignored.

So let’s try again. Is everything that Israel has done, and continues to do, proportionate to the threat it perceives or is there anything at all that you think is not?

As this thread is specifically about Israel and Hamas nobody should be saying anything about other atrocities.

It’s not disproportionate, their enemies want to destroy the state of Israel and kill all Jews.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I honestly think you don't understand much about combat. I don't either having been fortunate to have never entered a warzone, but I've watch read and studied enough of conflict to understand what they face. You seem to think it is easy going in and just getting rid of the terrorists whilst leaving everyone else unharmed. These young soldiers lives are in danger all the time, and they are faced with fanatics.

This type of enemy is what the USA faced with Japan, and was one of the drivers, or excuses for the decision to use the bomb instead of losing American lives to fight on. And the Japanese didn't even hide amongst women and children.

I don’t think you, or the others giving a blank cheque to Israel understand that combat has rules. Rules that put responsibilities on the parties to avoid civilian casualties, respect prisoners of war, and to allow medical and food aid to those who need it.

What one side does is no defence at all for the behaviour of the other. Israel claims to be part of the western world. It needs to behave accordingly.

The west must face the threat of radical Islam together and not see an outlier letting our standards slip, no matter how difficult that might be. We need to keep moderate Islam on our side and gradually wear down the influence of the radicals. There are better ways for Israel to achieve the security they need than this approach.

 

[georgenorman]

I don’t think you, or the others giving a blank cheque to Israel understand that combat has rules. Rules that put responsibilities on the parties to avoid civilian casualties, respect prisoners of war, and to allow medical and food aid to those who need it.

What one side does is no defence at all for the behaviour of the other. Israel claims to be part of the western world. It needs to behave accordingly.

The west must face the threat of radical Islam together and not see an outlier letting our standards slip, no matter how difficult that might be. We need to keep moderate Islam on our side and gradually wear down the influence of the radicals. There are better ways for Israel to achieve the security they need than this approach.

Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties, respects prisoners of war and allows medical and food aid to those who need it. Hamas and their Iranian puppet masters do the opposite

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It’s not disproportionate, their enemies want to destroy the state of Israel and kill all Jews.

True of Hamas, but not of the civilians, the women and children, losing their lives every day.

You don’t slaughter them just because Hamas use them as human shields. You act smart, using the very significant resources available. You don’t take advantage of a US President who flip flops from one position to another to try to achieve the agenda of the hard right props to your government.

Hamas is already a spent force, capable only of token resistance. What Israel has done and continues to do is grossly disproportionate to the reality of the threat. Now is the time for a brokered peace, which offers all remaining Hamas fighters exile or imprisonment and the rebuilding of Gaza under a new authority involving the PLO and supervised by the Gulf states.

A change of government in Israel too would help!

 

[Spiderman]

Where have I said that this war started on Oct 7th? I was replying to you as you had also mentioned it before me. Please do not tell me what i think, i haven't to you. I'll await an apology.

Hope you like strong coffee

 

[georgenorman]

True of Hamas, but not of the civilians, the women and children, losing their lives every day.

You don’t slaughter them just because Hamas use them as human shields. You act smart, using the very significant resources available. You don’t take advantage of a US President who flip flops from one position to another to try to achieve the agenda of the hard right props to your government.

Hamas is already a spent force, capable only of token resistance. What Israel has done and continues to do is grossly disproportionate to the reality of the threat. Now is the time for a brokered peace, which offers all remaining Hamas fighters exile or imprisonment and the rebuilding of Gaza under a new authority involving the PLO and supervised by the Gulf states.

A change of government in Israel too would help!

The civilians elected Hamas, rather like those in Germany elected the Nazis.

 

[Spindle]

Syria now a target for the terrorist organisation Palestinian Action as they normalise relations with Israel

US to remove Syria's Hayat Tahrir al-Sham from list of foreign terrorist groups

The Islamist group led a rebel offensive that toppled Syria's Assad regime in December.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Spindle]

True of Hamas, but not of the civilians, the women and children, losing their lives every day.

You don’t slaughter them just because Hamas use them as human shields. You act smart, using the very significant resources available. You don’t take advantage of a US President who flip flops from one position to another to try to achieve the agenda of the hard right props to your government.

Hamas is already a spent force, capable only of token resistance. What Israel has done and continues to do is grossly disproportionate to the reality of the threat. Now is the time for a brokered peace, which offers all remaining Hamas fighters exile or imprisonment and the rebuilding of Gaza under a new authority involving the PLO and supervised by the Gulf states.

A change of government in Israel too would help!

Do you think that Israel should let all those terrorists off then?

Wisbech, this is fantasy

As for the civilians, I just explained how hard it is, and had they followed your idea there may be fewer Gazans dead, but also far fewer Hamas dirtbags and a lot more Jews

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties, respects prisoners of war and allows medical and food aid to those who need it. Hamas and their Iranian puppet masters do the opposite

Are you serious?

They bomb hospitals and schools, because they believe Hamas are hiding there. That’s not avoiding civilian casualties. It’s accepting them.

Israel’s treatment of prisoners is questionable, to say the least:-

Why Does Israel Have So Many Palestinians in Detention and Available to Swap?

While many have rightly hailed the release of civilians held hostage by Hamas after the killings of hundreds of Israelis and other civilians on October 7 — hostage-taking is a war crime — less attention has been focused on why exactly Israel has so many Palestinians in detention and available to...

www.hrw.org

Israel has stopped the independent distribution of aid and assumed responsibility itself. Effectively using it as yet another lever of control over the civilians, some of whom are dying in their efforts to access it.

The hospitals are hardly operational any longer, having been bombed. Short of medicines and staff there are a plethora of horror stories waiting to be told.

 

[indianapalace85]

Seems that since you've been told off for just name calling your new strategy, or frustration, is to just make wild claims about everyone. You've made 3 on your first 3 posts.

You might think your are a master of debate, well, you're close in a kind of way I guess lol

Deflecting without any actual answer, as usual.

 

[indianapalace85]

Do you think that Israel should let all those terrorists off then?

Wisbech, this is fantasy

As for the civilians, I just explained how hard it is, and had they followed your idea there may be fewer Gazans dead, but also far fewer Hamas dirtbags and a lot more Jews

Funny how hard it for Israel to avoid civilians more than any other country at war.

 

[indianapalace85]

It’s not disproportionate, their enemies want to destroy the state of Israel and kill all Jews.

As do Israel, wanting to wipe out Palestinians.

 

[Spindle]

Deflecting without any actual answer, as usual.

You gave no reply that warranted an answer, as I described.

 

[indianapalace85]

You gave no reply that warranted an answer, as I described.

Which is the typical answer from someone with nothing left to actually debate, just character assassination.

Which you've been doing since minute one, because you are a troll and don't actually have anything tangible to use in this debate.

 

[Spindle]

As do Israel, wanting to wipe out Palestinians.

Wiping them out by dropping warning leaflets, feeding them and ringing them up telling them where the next attack is All while the Palestinian population increases annually.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Do you think that Israel should let all those terrorists off then?

Wisbech, this is fantasy

As for the civilians, I just explained how hard it is, and had they followed your idea there may be fewer Gazans dead, but also far fewer Hamas dirtbags and a lot more Jews

Let them off?

This isn’t a schoolboy prank. People are dying in their 10s of thousands.

What matters is to achieve a lasting peace and security. That requires diplomacy, common sense and compromise, backed up by guarantees.

Trying to achieve retribution won’t do that. It just digs deeper holes.

 

[Spindle]

Which is the typical answer from someone with nothing left to actually debate, just character assassination.

Which you've been doing since minute one, because you are a troll and don't actually have anything tangible to this debate.

I've not said anything of your character, I wrote of your new strategy since your warning.

Meanwhile you are accusing me of trolling, which is a personal attack actually.

 

[indianapalace85]

Wiping them out by dropping warning leaflets, feeding them and ringing them up telling them where the next attack is All while the Palestinian population increases annually.

All whilst being forced into a danger zone, shot and burned to death at the same time.

Yes, how considerate of them.

Ringing them up? Lol.
Sure, they all have phones, because they'd all have phones when they don't even have food and water... "Here's your next friendly airstrike, due in 5 mins. Don't worry if it won't hit you, we'll just shoot you anyway."