Where do we go from here?

[palaceexile]

If Sage does go I think two things need to happen.

Firstly, the right replacement. At times, the problem has seemed to be that Sage wants to press high and be on the front foot. The natural instinct becomes to appoint a replacement with a more defensive, pragmatic approach.

I'm not sure that's right. We are defending terribly quite often, but also increasingly using the ball badly, and threatening to score less and less. I have started to think it's not the nature of Sage's approach that's failing us. It's the quality of his work.

By extension, I don't think we necessarily need to get, to use obvious examples, a Dyche-type but avoid a Howe-type. I think the quality of the new manager's work is more important than his tactical preference. That's what players respond to most. Especially when it they detect it's absence.

Of course, we need an approach to suit the attributes and quality of the squad (such as they are) but I don't think that's absolutely got to be a defensive pragmatist.

Secondly, there needs to be a serious realignment between the financial needs of the business, the mindset in the squad, and the way the manager works.

It's a fact that we need to sell players at a profit to have a transfer budget. It's also a fact that we can only make serious profit on cheaper young hopefuls or academy graduates. There will always be that conveyor belt.

At the same time, we have mostly stayed up this long because of having a constant core of experienced, decent senior pros, from the originals like Delaney and Jedinak to the likes of McArthur, Dann, on to Hughes, Ayew, and so on.

At any one time, the lions share of the first team were good enough to keep us safe, but not so good as to have serious aspirations of moving to a bigger club. I know they lacked sell on value but the group mindset was one where everyone fights and does a proper job for Palace, because that's the best career and life option for them all.

Having a squad full of developing, saleable assets is fine when they are all on the way up, but once they bloom they all want to go. That means the second tier of players, like Mateta and Sarr, don't want to be left behind. The core is no longer Palace-focussed.

The squad needs to be two-thirds settled, senior pros, then the final third a mix of a couple of stars we can sell and hopefuls who might develop into stars. We've got the percentages all wrong and the culture seems to have suffered for it. The club and manager must be on the same page with this. It must be reflected in the team sheet as well as the transfer market.

Really insightful post.
Watching the likes of Olise, Eze, Guehe, Lacroix all exit to big clubs must unsettle those left behind.
We are fortunate to have commitment from players like Henderson and (I hope) Mitchell

 

[JHB]

We are all clutching at straws not one of us can say do this do that and guarantee it will make things all good.
It's easy to shout sack him get rid of him from the stands .
Hands up if anyone is a top level coach on here or multi million or £billion owner who has worked at a premium lge club . No we are all amateurs we make calls like amateurs and will always will be amateurs until we actually worked in that environment.
Keep changing managers and owners sends clubs in one direction down quicker than anything
Yesterday after 45 minutes was you all thinking this is better . Then in the first 15 minutes we lost our way . And this is what most are regarding was the only thing that happened in the match . After that spell we regained control . Bigger picture we was the better team . Smaller picture we made mistakes leading up to the 2nd goal . Defence was in right position the midfield wasn't

Apart from them scoring two more goals than us which I hear is quite important in games of football. What do I know though not being a top level owner or manager?

Amazing really that I’ve been so wrong thinking conceding over two goals a game is a problem but again I must lack the insight only available to top level football professionals and those lucky enough to catch pearls of wisdom as they fall from them

 

[MrRobbo]

We are all clutching at straws not one of us can say do this do that and guarantee it will make things all good.
It's easy to shout sack him get rid of him from the stands .
Hands up if anyone is a top level coach on here or multi million or £billion owner who has worked at a premium lge club . No we are all amateurs we make calls like amateurs and will always will be amateurs until we actually worked in that environment.
Keep changing managers and owners sends clubs in one direction down quicker than anything
Yesterday after 45 minutes was you all thinking this is better . Then in the first 15 minutes we lost our way . And this is what most are regarding was the only thing that happened in the match . After that spell we regained control . Bigger picture we was the better team . Smaller picture we made mistakes leading up to the 2nd goal . Defence was in right position the midfield wasn't

This is my issue. I completely understand the argument for sacking, and that goals conceded rate is alarming.

BUT, apart from 10 mins yesterday we were the better team. And in the first half shifted the balance to keep things tight (which blunted us a little going forward).

So what happened in those first 10 mins of the 2nd half. Did Sage tell the team at HT to open up a little more? Or was it the players just coming out of the blocks slowly?

 

[Willo]

This is my issue. I completely understand the argument for sacking, and that goals conceded rate is alarming.

BUT, apart from 10 mins yesterday we were the better team. And in the first half shifted the balance to keep things tight (which blunted us a little going forward).

So what happened in those first 10 mins of the 2nd half. Did Sage tell the team at HT to open up a little more? Or was it the players just coming out of the blocks slowly?

Consider the first goal, Osula was totally free to attack the cross in acres of space with both Richards and Disasi either side of him.Rank awful defending.
For the second Barnes was allowed to advance into the box with our players caught on their heels.
Both goals were crafted from deliveries out from wide on our left side.

 

[JHB]

This is my issue. I completely understand the argument for sacking, and that goals conceded rate is alarming.

BUT, apart from 10 mins yesterday we were the better team. And in the first half shifted the balance to keep things tight (which blunted us a little going forward).

So what happened in those first 10 mins of the 2nd half. Did Sage tell the team at HT to open up a little more? Or was it the players just coming out of the blocks slowly?

Thing is it has been the same during Sage’s entire tenure. Newcastle are not a good team and didn’t need to play well to beat us. We concede soft goals in almost every game. That means we have to be amazing in attack and create loads and loads of chances to win. We had to score three times to win the league games we have and even then if the opposition had been clinical we would have lost. It’s completely unsustainable at this level. We’ve played two good teams this season in Man City and Brighton and both of them took us to the cleaners.

It’s all very well saying we were the better team but basic defending is part of being better and we can’t do it under Sage

 

[PatrickA]

We've conceded 9 goals in the last 3 games since the last 'turning point' , the Forest game, in which we were fortunate not concede at least another 3 goals.

It doesn't matter whether goals are conceded in a 10 minute spelll after half time, we look incapable of keeping a clean sheet.
It's not sustainable to have to rely on scoring 3 goals in a game to have a chance of winning it.

Our defensive organisation is as shambolic as latter day Pardew (remember Swansea?).
It's not just an issue with the back 3 , there are huge gaps down the sides and no protection in front of them.
The team does not drilled, there's a lack of defensive structure and players are frequently out of position.
Glasner and Hodgson had their detractors, but at least their teams were organised and the players were crystal clear as to their roles and the positions they should adopt on the field.

 

[ASCPFC]

Organisation is where we go from here. And pretty much any manager can do that. 4-3-3.

 

[NEILLO]

To answer the question....we look like hiring a new Head Coach to organise a group of players that have apparently been recruited to fit into the current Head Coach's preferred tactics and set up.

I'm sure an experienced operator could stabilise the situation with some tweaks to the current system. But it's entirely possible that any incoming coach will want to employ an entirely different way of playing.

 

[Willo]

We've conceded 9 goals in the last 3 games since the last 'turning point' , the Forest game, in which we were fortunate not concede at least another 3 goals.

It doesn't matter whether goals are conceded in a 10 minute spelll after half time, we look incapable of keeping a clean sheet.
It's not sustainable to have to rely on scoring 3 goals in a game to have a chance of winning it.

Our defensive organisation is as shambolic as latter day Pardew (remember Swansea?).
It's not just an issue with the back 3 , there are huge gaps down the sides and no protection in front of them.
The team does not drilled, there's a lack of defensive structure and players are frequently out of position.
Glasner and Hodgson had their detractors, but at least their teams were organised and the players were crystal clear as to their roles and the positions they should adopt on the field.

I concur with these sentiments.
In Pardew's last 10 games at the helm we conceded 24 goals.

 

[Painter]

Our centre backs are bad enough as it is but can anyone really blame them with the tactics, 2 lightweight midfielders the opposition passes and runs through with ease, on top of the space left by the wing backs they have to worry about. Just go 433 and have Lerma in front of the centre backs for protection.

Our centre backs aren't bad, its the system. Do you think Roy would allow his CBs dribbling up the pitch and then losing the ball leaving us exposed? A team is built on its defence, making it hard for the opponents, not leaving wide open spaces for them to run into. Its not pretty to watch, but giving a 2 goal advantage to the opposition is only going to end in one result.

 

[park the bus]

Saying "we were the better team" is an easy get out for those who cannot accept the reality. If it were the one off game, granted, there may be some merit in the suggestion, but look at the table, the stats don't lie. In 8 league games we have conceded 19 goals, that's right 19! Over 2 a game, but of course, "we were the better team" is the mantra. I await "we're too good to go down", which is patently untrue as we're f***ing awful, but what is one to do? The only option open is to change the direction of travel as Sage's tactics have us earmarked for certain relegation. It's up to Parish. How long will he wait and accept inept performances and tactical naivety before pulling the plug on Sage?

 

[Willo]

To answer the question....we look like hiring a new Head Coach to organise a group of players that have apparently been recruited to fit into the current Head Coach's preferred tactics and set up.

I'm sure an experienced operator could stabilise the situation with some tweaks to the current system. But it's entirely possible that any incoming coach will want to employ an entirely different way of playing.

In conversation with a plethora of supporters at the game and afterwards, the consensus was that a change is needed and there was a groundswell of support for Sean Dyche.

 

[orpingtoneagle]

Where do we go from here?


Is it down to the lake I fear.......

Kids ask your parents

But let's be Frank the answer is Thomas

Or if we don't know Howe ask Eddie

 

[Mystic Smeg]

Please please not old gravel voice

Sage should be given the next transfer window at least

Adam Wharton not been great since made captain, give it to Richards

Osario needs to start

Bring back the Doug at all costs

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Where do we go from here?


Is it down to the lake I fear.......

Kids ask your parents

But let's be Frank the answer is Thomas

Or if we don't know Howe ask Eddie

Stick your finger in the Dyche?

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Saying "we were the better team" is an easy get out for those who cannot accept the reality. If it were the one off game, granted, there may be some merit in the suggestion, but look at the table, the stats don't lie. In 8 league games we have concede 19 goals, that's right 19! Over 2 a game, but of course, "we were the better team" is the mantra. I await "we're too good to go down", which is patently untrue as we're f***ing awful, but what is one to do? The only option open is to change the direction of travel as Sage's tactics have us earmarked for certain relegation. It's up to Parish. How long will he wait and accept inept performances and tactical naivety before pulling the plug on Sage?

That was the most worrying thing, Newcastle were poor and were there for the taking, but they obviously thought the same about us and came out second half fired up, we had our what now seems like an obligatory chaotic spell and it’s game over.
Better team? It was two poor teams for me, but two or three if you count the one that was disallowed clinical finishes aided by our usual slack defending killed it for us.
Or though to be fair the cross for the first goal was superb, quality we clearly lacked at the other end yesterday

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Yes the theory of why OG left falls a bit flat when you look at the table and see where Forest are, having just sold their best player Anderson to City prior to his joining.

I should imagine we’ll be replacing Forest in the bottom three next weekend

 

[Willo]

That was the most worrying thing, Newcastle were poor and were there for the taking, but they obviously thought the same about us and came out second half fired up, we had our what now seems like an obligatory chaotic spell and it’s game over.
Better team? It was two poor teams for me, but two or three if you count the one that was disallowed clinical finishes aided by our usual slack defending killed it for us.
Or though to be fair the cross for the first goal was superb, quality we clearly lacked at the other end yesterday

The cross would not have been viewed as "Superb" if our defenders had not allowed Osula so much space to prod it past Benitez. Diabolical defending.

 

[PatrickA]

The cross would not have been viewed as "Superb" if our defenders had not allowed Osula so much space to prod it past Benitez. Diabolical defending.

Indeed, and I would go further , we didn't stop the cross.
The ball was played behind Mitchell, Canvot was drawn out to cover but failed to stop the cross and was also then not in box to help defend the ensuing ball in.

Mitchell in his time with us has been one of the best full backs in the division at stopping crosses.
However, he's starting position further forward now means he often chasing back trying to recover rather than having the play in front of him where he can get tight to his man.
On the other side neither Khalaili or Mingueza look comfortable preventing crosses, whatever their other attrubutes may be.

 

[KCeee]

We'll do what we always do:

-Bring in a defensive firefighter manager to keep us safe and steady the ship.

-upgrade to a more ambitious manager when the firefighter has run his course.

-start playing well and showing promise.

-sell our best players and replace them with junk.

-blame the manager for the downswing in performance

-Bring in a defensive firefighter manager to keep us safe and steady the ship.