Iran

Stirlingsays said:
While at the same time supplying Iran with target coordinates.

Mind you.....I want Russia's cheap oil so as soon as they are brought back into the list of trading nations the better.
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Would Russia even want to deal with us after years of Russophobic bullshit and sanctions being thrown their way for daring to protect the ethnic Russian Ukrainians in the Donbass? I'm not sure they would tbh. Its more likely they would tell us to go beg to Trump for it, he started this current mess with Iran after all and keeps going on about how much oil they have. Maybe they already have as things have only just started to get desperate, fuel wise. I think most of the free thinking world is watching to see what happens when Trumps 10 day 'ultimatum' ends.
 
elgin eeagle said:
Would Russia even want to deal with us after years of Russophobic bullshit and sanctions being thrown their way for daring to protect the ethnic Russian Ukrainians in the Donbass? I'm not sure they would tbh. Its more likely they would tell us to go beg to Trump for it, he started this current mess with Iran after all and keeps going on about how much oil they have. Maybe they already have as things have only just started to get desperate, fuel wise. I think most of the free thinking world is watching to see what happens when Trumps 10 day 'ultimatum' ends.
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Unlike the current socially liberal European elites....who have been a disaster and have made poor decisions that are and will cost us.....Russian elites are pragmatists.

Don't get me wrong, they have also been awful for their people, but just in a different way.

They were provoked and the US are working to break up Russia (as they did the British empire), but regardless starting that war was a misjudgment as large as Trump's.

When the war ends, they will have gained a large amount of territory but a lot of it will stay as ruins for a long time, maybe generations....because Russia will use it as a buffer zone....a no man's zone.

It's very sad.

Hopefully, in time under different leaders, there can be a rapprochement and Ukraine can either gain back territory after Russia is officially brought into Europe (which the US would fight against)......But we are obviously a very long distance from that.
 
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Spindle said:
You say that against a backdrop of 1 million Russian casualties. That's how much Putin cares about 'russian people'.
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I think you need to look at the other side for the reason for the huge casualty rate (on both sides). The Ukraine will always be Russian in the eyes of all Russians. Millions of ethnic Russians live(d) there since Soviet Union days. They are prepared to die fighting for their country to preserve that. The rest of the iron curtain they have sacrificed, but never the Ukraine. The place is existential to them.

If the west is now desperate for fuel if Iran keeps the straight closed to non friendly traffic they probably need to look elsewhere than Russia. It would not be a good look to all the widows if they helped the Nazis and their western backers at this point. Again, they should have thought of the end game when they left Berlin.
 
elgin eeagle said:
I think you need to look at the other side for the reason for the huge casualty rate (on both sides). The Ukraine will always be Russian in the eyes of all Russians. Millions of ethnic Russians live(d) there since Soviet Union days. They are prepared to die fighting for their country to preserve that. The rest of the iron curtain they have sacrificed, but never the Ukraine. The place is existential to them.

If the west is now desperate for fuel if Iran keeps the straight closed to non friendly traffic they probably need to look elsewhere than Russia. It would not be a good look to all the widows if they helped the Nazis and their western backers at this point. Again, they should have thought of the end game when they left Berlin.
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Yep, I've said it from early on after looking into why Russia had Ukraine as a red line....and not other border states like Finland. When you look at the geography of the border it's far too extensive to defend effectively against incursion if Ukraine became anti Russian as threats on joining Nato were.....that's not the same as with Finland for example.

Russia acted the same way that the US would if Mexico or Canada were to have anti US governments set against it with a large and well resourced army.

At its closest point Ukraine is five hours drive to Moscow......There's absolutely no way to protect themselves against missile batteries at that distance.

If I could find this out by a simple bit of research all the massive idiots being paid huge sums working in the US state department back in the early 2000s would have known this too......when they decided on a policy of pulling Ukraine away from Russia and started pumping tens of millions into producing a colour revolution.

Those are the wankers responsible for the highest energy bills in my lifetime and a destroyed Ukraine and a new return to the cold war......which we are weaker placed now because of China.

Absolute dross of elites compared to the past......All they have now are emotional arguments for producing an complete and utter mess with countless wasted lives.

The cream of Ukraine lies in graves.....It needed those men......Now Europe is left with the bill for Ukraine....which as I was always against involvement in this war I resent.

I've always said it that I think Putin went to war over this far too early and like Trump over Iran, he didn't envisage the complications that would extend into an existential war.....mainly because he....like Trump thought that the response would be rational.....but when you start killing people the response isn't always rational.

It should have been but it wasn't.....We don't have the pragmatists in power and instead far too many tarts who suffer no consequences for bad results.
 
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eaglesdare said:
Trump's latest message to the Regime 😅
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This reminds me of the meme against fruitcake progressives.....that they are crying as they hit you.

The neo cons care so much for the people of Iran that they are going to send them back to the stone age.....Is he going to have them die of thirst as well by hitting desalination plants?

It's doing everything but nuke them.....But he knows the MO of the Iranian regime.....He knows that unless he overthrows them with boots on the ground that they will do everything to ensure that the cost of this war is so high that US/Israel never try it again.

So it's very unlikely that they come to make a deal.

Trump walked into this when he listened to the neo cons.....He only has sh1t options now.
He started his political career raging against Bush, only to end up listening to the same neo cons and becoming his own kind of Bush.

Now he has to overthrow the regime or the world economy is fecked.....except for Bric countries and he's responsible for it.

He risks losing all his military bases in the region as well if Iran's regime stay in power.
 
Stirlingsays said:
This reminds me of the meme against fruitcake progressives.....that they are crying as they hit you.

The neo cons care so much for the people of Iran that they are going to send them back to the stone age.....Is he going to have them die of thirst as well by hitting desalination plants?

It's doing everything but nuke them.....But he knows the MO of the Iranian regime.....He knows that unless he overthrows them with boots on the ground that they will do everything to ensure that the cost of this war is so high that US/Israel never try it again.

So it's very unlikely that they come to make a deal.

Trump walked into this when he listened to the neo cons.....He only has sh1t options now.

Now he has to overthrow the regime or the world economy is fecked.....except for Bric countries and he's responsible for it.

He risks losing all his military bases in the region as well if Iran's regime stay in power.
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My thoughts too. Its really all in now to get rid of them for good or it would have all been for nothing. We can all debate whether it was a good idea to go to war at the start till the cows come home but the reality is now that he has to finish them.
 
eaglesdare said:
My thoughts too. Its really all in now to get rid of them for good or it would have all been for nothing. We can all debate whether it was a good idea to go to war at the start till the cows come home but the reality is now that he has to finish them.
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Trump is hard to predict but I think that's his only chance of victory......He can pull out and claim victory but no one is going to believe it if Iran still hold the strait to ransom.

He probably has to overthrow the regime to change that.....Why would the regime in Iran trust Trump after the last two negotiations were ploys and if they don't enact a very high cost for the war then they know the US/Israel will be back in a year doing the same thing. ....So I'm looking at that and only seeing a significant cost whatever Trump does.

He can't overthrown the regime with twenty thousand troops anyway. That's about enough to secure the strait maybe.....but it's going to cost him body bags.

Obviously they are all very aware of this.

He really fecked this up.....after all his criticism of other presidents he royally fecked this up as well.

This often happens with too many 'yes' men around you.
 
eaglesdare said:
My thoughts too. Its really all in now to get rid of them for good or it would have all been for nothing. We can all debate whether it was a good idea to go to war at the start till the cows come home but the reality is now that he has to finish them.
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Totally agree Trump has to kill Iran off now or there’s a decade of costly military spats with Iran and fuel /Food inflation .
As much as I’m against this war , if I I’m honest I don’t care enough about the gulf states to worry about their near annihilation if it means less suffering and financial risk for the Western world .
 
Stirlingsays said:
Yep, I've said it from early on after looking into why Russia had Ukraine as a red line....and not other border states like Finland. When you look at the geography of the border it's far too extensive to defend effectively against incursion if Ukraine became anti Russian as threats on joining Nato were.....that's not the same as with Finland for example.

Russia acted the same way that the US would if Mexico or Canada were to have anti US governments set against it with a large and well resourced army.

At its closest point Ukraine is five hours drive to Moscow......There's absolutely no way to protect themselves against missile batteries at that distance.

If I could find this out by a simple bit of research all the massive idiots being paid huge sums working in the US state department back in the early 2000s would have known this too......when they decided on a policy of pulling Ukraine away from Russia and started pumping tens of millions into producing a colour revolution.

Those are the wankers responsible for the highest energy bills in my lifetime and a destroyed Ukraine and a new return to the cold war......which we are weaker placed now because of China.

Absolute dross of elites compared to the past......All they have now are emotional arguments for producing an complete and utter mess with countless wasted lives.

The cream of Ukraine lies in graves.....It needed those men......Now Europe is left with the bill for Ukraine....which as I was always against involvement in this war I resent.

I've always said it that I think Putin went to war over this far too early and like Trump over Iran, he didn't envisage the complications that would extend into an existential war.....mainly because he....like Trump thought that the response would be rational.....but when you start killing people the response isn't always rational.

It should have been but it wasn't.....We don't have the pragmatists in power and instead far too many tarts who suffer no consequences for bad results.
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Absolutely. Scum like Nuland have so much blood on their hands it's unbelievable.
 
eaglesdare said:
Trump's latest message to the Regime 😅
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Having read it I think the world would be a fair better place if leaders used similar language when interacting with their enemies. Let’s all hope that this has set the tone for the next 20 years.
Hopefully Iran will take his message well and immediately fold on their knees, but who knows.
We need to elect a leader who is prepared to swear at other countries!! Come on!!! Where is angry Frank!
 
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