The Donald Trump thread

Stirlingsays said:
Well, I'm not writing a book....my posts are often longer than I'd prefer anyway.

I don't agree with your seeming belief that fertility is purely an economic outgrown and I think you ignore the feminist influences and effects without explaining why.


Yes, Hungary is or was fighting against a long cultural movement that has ingrained itself over generations. It takes more than just a few years. However, as I proved when comparing it to France, the native birth rate rose, which was their aim. Indeed, I think they would have more to do to increase it.....but frankly I'm not sure that democracy can achieve it....though I'd prefer it to.



Yes, work is coercion in most cases.....unless it's a job someone naturally loves.

Most people, like energy, naturally move to the lowest energy state. Most people wouldn't work if society didn't both sell the message that it's positive for them compared to the alternative.

The same thing should have been done with child-birth for women......Which most women aren't against anyway. In fact they have been propagandized against it by both feministic and corporate neoliberal forces.



Sometimes, usually technology dependent.



Snap, and hopefully true but also has downsides....This is yet to play out but better work or things will be even worse.


Sometimes but only very tightly restricted, it creates bigger problems than it solves when run by social and neoliberals. Japan have the right focus on migration but Europe has had a disaster.



Disagree, but it's part of a much bigger conversation.

Cultural pressure worked much more successfully in the past but I accept that contraception and modern technology has made that culture far less successful.

It would need looking into with a modern frame.



Fertility rates are far higher in less economically successful countries so like I said previously the cultural messaging which leads to far higher expectation levels in women and....plenty of men has a far higher impact than you appear to accept.

Changing the picture requires both economic and cultural change.

Neither will be that pretty.



Automation would have to work.....but you're right that living standards will fall......which is coming regardless of 'my preferred cultural set-up', along with inevitable internal conflict due to demographic and cultural cohesion break down.....which the immigration you refer to is basically responsible for.

Not all immigration is bad, just most of it.
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And the rest of us 😘
 
Stirlingsays said:
I like the fact that you brought up Rome.

Obviously it's vastly different in so many respects because of technology and systems. However, humans at the physical and mental level are no different and parallels in behaviour and cultural attitudes can be mapped across.

If you look at early to mid Rome what marked out a lot of their success was a belief in the superiority of their system.....Rome was held up as the pinnicle.....troops were fighting for an ideal. You can see this with most successful militarises: ideals work.....Early Islam for example. If the guys are just fighting for money or careers rather than ideals then there is a notable decline.

Dilution of Rome can be charted at when it started moving away from what motivates young men....If young men aren't willing to fight and die in large enough numbers to defend their elites and thus ruling systems..... then any civilization is in danger....to whatever system young men are willing to die defending or pushing.

The west, especially Europe, started moving away from societies that benefit young men when extreme versions of liberalism took hold and indeed, today we have feminism as some kind of preferred ideal.

Now we don't have young men willing to fight in militarizes mainly because society doesn't promote the kind of values that are worth them fighting and dying for.

Young men are told their natural behaviours are toxic and women are promoted into positions that were previously exclusive to men.

It's as dim as it gets.....but that's what happens when positive law replaces natural law......stupid decisions that ultimately lead to bad outcomes for everybody.
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What did the Romans ever do for us?
 
Badger11 said:
When they finally create proper Fembots I predict a lot of orders for Sophie, Bridgette and Marilyn etc.

Maybe not so many orders for today's sex symbols. As for the ladies I think there will a few orders for Clark Gable, Sean Connery and Cary Grant.

😀
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Gawd Blimey.....I'd come home one night to Cary Grant on top of my missus!

Was Grant even straight?
 
Stirlingsays said:
Well, I'm not writing a book....my posts are often longer than I'd prefer anyway.

I don't agree with your seeming belief that fertility is purely an economic outgrown and I think you ignore the feminist influences and effects without explaining why.


Yes, Hungary is or was fighting against a long cultural movement that has ingrained itself over generations. It takes more than just a few years. However, as I proved when comparing it to France, the native birth rate rose, which was their aim. Indeed, I think they would have more to do to increase it.....but frankly I'm not sure that democracy can achieve it....though I'd prefer it to.



Yes, work is coercion in most cases.....unless it's a job someone naturally loves.

Most people, like energy, naturally move to the lowest energy state. Most people wouldn't work if society didn't both sell the message that it's positive for them compared to the alternative.

The same thing should have been done with child-birth for women......Which most women aren't against anyway. In fact they have been propagandized against it by both feministic and corporate neoliberal forces.



Sometimes, usually technology dependent.



Snap, and hopefully true but also has downsides....This is yet to play out but better work or things will be even worse.


Sometimes but only very tightly restricted, it creates bigger problems than it solves when run by social and neoliberals. Japan have the right focus on migration but Europe has had a disaster.



Disagree, but it's part of a much bigger conversation.

Cultural pressure worked much more successfully in the past but I accept that contraception and modern technology has made that culture far less successful.

It would need looking into with a modern frame.



Fertility rates are far higher in less economically successful countries so like I said previously the cultural messaging which leads to far higher expectation levels in women and....plenty of men has a far higher impact than you appear to accept.

Changing the picture requires both economic and cultural change.

Neither will be that pretty.



Automation would have to work.....but you're right that living standards will fall......which is coming regardless of 'my preferred cultural set-up', along with inevitable internal conflict due to demographic and cultural cohesion break down.....which the immigration you refer to is basically responsible for.

Not all immigration is bad, just most of it.
Click to expand...

I’m not suggesting fertility is purely economic, but cultural explanations don’t work unless you can show a mechanism that operates independently of the material constraints.

Hungary actually reinforces this point; native fertility rose slightly from a very low base but it quickly hit a ceiling well below replacement despite heavy pro-natalist messaging. That shows the limits of culture even when the state actively pushes it.

According to polling, most women still want children near replacement level. The gap is between desired and actual fertility - if feminism were the primary driver, you’d expect desire itself to collapse.

Higher fertility in poorer countries doesn’t prove your point either. There, children are economic inputs and old-age insurance; once economies modernise, fertility falls everywhere regardless of ideology - that pattern is global.

Japan shows exactly what happens when you restrict immigration without solving fertility; stagnation and labour shortages.

Culture does matter to some extent, but without structural reform it won't touch the sides. Until you can show how messaging alone overcomes the real costs and risks of child-rearing in modern economies, 'feminism' isn’t a reasonable explanation.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
I’m not suggesting fertility is purely economic, but cultural explanations don’t work unless you can show a mechanism that operates independently of the material constraints.
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It does work....certainly better than feminism.....but it requires other levers as well to get to replacement.

CPFCSaturn said:
Hungary actually reinforces this point; native fertility rose slightly from a very low base but it quickly hit a ceiling well below replacement despite heavy pro-natalist messaging. That shows the limits of culture even when the state actively pushes it.
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What happened in Hungary was only tried over a few years. Just as fertility didn't crash all at once it's a generational effort to get back....And as I said, just like it took feminism and neoliberalism decades to destroy the birth rate it won't only take cultural change to recover it.

CPFCSaturn said:
According to polling, most women still want children near replacement level. The gap is between desired and actual fertility - if feminism were the primary driver, you’d expect desire itself to collapse.
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Yeah, I suspect most women like Disney movies as well. Of course in an idealised setting most women would like children but we can't wait around for Disney to become real.

The change in the cultural messaging is one important factor, incentives are another.

CPFCSaturn said:
Higher fertility in poorer countries doesn’t prove your point either. There, children are economic inputs and old-age insurance; once economies modernise, fertility falls everywhere regardless of ideology - that pattern is global.
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It does prove my point. I stated that cultural messaging has produced unrealistic expectations in the last two generations of women, which is the fault of both social and neoliberalism. That isn't happening in poorer countries....lessons are there to be learned.

There hasn't been cultural nor economic levers in the west used to counter this. Hungary has tried but it's fighting properganda from the west flowing into TV screens everyday selling feminism and neoliberal messaging.

I'm sure that with both cultural, incentives and technological efforts (IVF) Europe can recover in a generation or two without the destruction of immigration rendering Europe not worthy of the name.

CPFCSaturn said:
Japan shows exactly what happens when you restrict immigration without solving fertility; stagnation and labour shortages.
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Yeah, a country with low crime, high paying jobs, clean streets and that's something the Japanese people want to keep.....if I remember correctly they recently voted against a pro immigration option in elections.....Probably as they can see what it brings. They will bank a lot on automation.....but they also have to sort out their reproduction issue as cultural issues are hammering them.
CPFCSaturn said:
Culture does matter to some extent, but without structural reform it won't touch the sides. Until you can show how messaging alone overcomes the real costs and risks of child-rearing in modern economies, 'feminism' isn’t a reasonable explanation.
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We disagree on the big picture, but I agree that it would require structural reform and I don't claim that it's all 'feminism' anyway.
 
On the face of it the Davos meeting seems to be a win for Trump's base.

Climbing down on threats but getting a deal on Greenland.

Positive noises against companies like Blackrock and corporations buying up houses and then renting them out significantly reducing supply for the average Joe......a rallying cry for home ownership.

Words are one thing let's see if he actually does anything.
 
Frenchaigle said:
So you would like to see women stay at home ,chained to the stove ,popping out kids ?

Do they have a choice ? Or will this be forced .

Are you the Christian Taliban ?

You talk of young generation not wanting to go to war .I ,even though im approaching 60 ,would resist these ideals .
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They did throughout our evolution and still do in the majority of the world. And once this little fairytale is over that's what they'll go back to.

They are happier that way, and the surveys prove it. Don't try to tell us women who worked for the faceless man in middle management and didn't have a family is better off than the woman surrounded by her grandchildren. And it's not just about women, because men, and society, is happier that way. We're evolved that way and this is a blip.
 
Spindle said:
They did throughout our evolution and still do in the majority of the world. And once this little fairytale is over that's what they'll go back to.

They are happier that way, and the surveys prove it. Don't try to tell us women who worked for the faceless man in middle management and didn't have a family is better off than the woman surrounded by her grandchildren. And it's not just about women, because men, and society, is happier that way. We're evolved that way and this is a blip.
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Have you told your daughter that she shouldn’t want to do anything else with her life other then be a mother?
 
HKOwen said:
I enjoyed him bitch slapping Carney
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Trumps speech was embarrassing, offensive , littered with lies , confused ,boring .Is he now turning his sights on Iceland ?
Watch out Ireland you are a typo away from being invaded .

The USA s credibility is shot while this baffoon is in power .
Bitch slapping Carney ! I don't think so ,Carney runs rings round Trump intellectualy.Then again that's not very difficult.
 
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