US Politics

[CPFCSaturn]

How is it illogical?

Because it summarises some evidence and then reaches a conclusion which is not remotely consistent with the evidence summarised.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Because it summarises some evidence and then reaches a conclusion which is not remotely consistent with the evidence summarised.

That's a non specific answer that could be applied to just about contention.

I would like to ask Grok the exact same question that you claim was just as reliable as mine so I can firstly see that it's not trying to manipulate Grok and secondly to see that it gives out the same response.

If what you produced was 'just as reliable'.
Kindly provide me the inputs that was used to create it as 'in your opinion Grok what do these symbols track his political belief in?' does not do that.

 

[cryrst]

Whatever some AI site puts out the truth will be out soon. But tbh you can take any question two ways as a human or a pc programme.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think if you are going to connect this guy to Fuentes's movement then some actual evidence other than claiming that messages were using 'irony' is required.

Otherwise all the evidence weighs towards what Grok has reliably produced as an answer from my question.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Whatever some AI site puts out the truth will be out soon. But tbh you can take any question two ways as a human or a pc programme.

Well, if he is some kind of 'ironic' follower of Fuentes I would actually like to know.....as I want the truth like any other honest person.

If this is just far leftist trolling that also needs to be exposed....it's either that or desperate brain dumps emanating from desperate progressives.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

That's a non specific answer that could be applied to just about contention.

I would like to ask Grok the exact same question that you claim was just as reliable as mine so I can firstly see that it's not trying to manipulate Grok and secondly to see that it gives out the same response.

If what you produced was 'just as reliable'.
Kindly provide me the inputs that was used to create it as 'in your opinion Grok what do these symbols track his political belief in?' does not do that.

I’ve already sent the question, as well as plenty of evidence which seems to support the Groyper theory. It’s certainly more convincing to me than vague hints about discord chats.

The bulge comment seems to be derogatory about transsexuals.

“If you’re reading this you’re gay lmaooo” … screams meme/trolling culture.

Bella Ciao is on the ‘Groyper War America First playlist’

Whatever his politics, this guy was clearly hyper online and active in those sort of meme/trolling spaces.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I think if you are going to connect this guy to Fuentes's movement then some actual evidence other than claiming that messages were using 'irony' is required.

Otherwise all the evidence weighs towards what Grok has reliably produced as an answer from my question.

When you say ‘all the evidence’ points to him being antifa/leftist, what are you considering as ‘all the evidence’?

Clearly none of what I have shared.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I’ve already sent the question, as well as plenty of evidence which seems to support the Groyper theory. It’s certainly more convincing to me than vague hints about discord chats.

The 'question' refers to symbols that would have to be included to ascertain the reliability of what was being asked. I need to input what was placed into Grok is see if it's honest.

So please provide what you have stated on here was just as reliable as the question I pasted out on this forum so that can be directly reproduced.

The bulge comment seems to be derogatory about transsexuals.

“If you’re reading this you’re gay lmaooo” … screams meme/trolling culture.

Bella Ciao is on the ‘Groyper War America First playlist’

Whatever his politics, this guy was clearly hyper online and active in those sort of meme/trolling spaces. View attachment 1993

None of what you say here is evidence.

Why would you assume 'irony' without actual evidence to connect this individual to the far right?

You have no evidence for 'irony' other than leftists saying so apparently.

Without evidence to the contrary you take things at face value.

 

[Stirlingsays]

When you say ‘all the evidence’ points to him being antifa/leftist, what are you considering as ‘all the evidence’?

Clearly none of what I have shared.

I've already said.

As has Grok....to a question you can reliably reproduce....thus far unlike what you gave me.

His family have stated he was critical of Kirk.
He was using Antifa discord servers.....if he was far right where is his far right server usage?
He uses anti fascist messaging on bullet casings.

You haven't provided any evidence for irony....other than claims that somehow the Gropers do this.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The 'question' refers to symbols that would have to be included to ascertain the reliability of what was being asked. I need to input what was placed into Grok is see if it's honest.

So please provide what you have stated on here was just as reliable as the question I pasted out on this forum so that can be directly reproduced.




None of what you say here is evidence.

Why would you assume 'irony' without actual evidence to connect this individual to the far right?

You have no evidence for 'irony' other than leftists saying so apparently.

Without evidence to the contrary you take things at face value.

There is considerably more evidence that he was some sort of hyper online meme/troll type than anything else at this stage - I’ve provided a selection of screenshots and photos, as well as references from people who understand that strange online space - you are yet to engage with a single one of these examples or references, let alone refute them.

Time will tell.

 

[Stirlingsays]

As I say if he was actually some far right nutcase I would like to know.

I was given a screenshot claiming that Grok suggested he was.

I would like to be given the inputs that can reproduce what you pasted.

 

[georgenorman]

There is considerably more evidence that he was some sort of hyper online meme/troll type than anything else at this stage - I’ve provided a selection of screenshots and photos, as well as references from people who understand that strange online space - you are yet to engage with a single one of these examples or references, let alone refute them.

Time will tell.

Wisbechian sophistry of the highest order.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I've already said.

As has Grok....to a question you can reliably reproduce....thus far unlike what you gave me.

His family have stated he was critical of Kirk.
He was using Antifa discord servers.....if he was far right where is his far right server usage?
He uses anti fascist messaging on bullet casings.

You haven't provided any evidence for irony....other than claims that somehow the Gropers do this.

As we’ve shown, being critical of Kirk is something antifa and these Groypers would have in common, so it’s not evidence either way.

Where’s the evidence of ‘antifa discord servers’? Just saying it does not make it evidence.

His messaging is not anti-fascist - they are all very online references, as I have explained above.

So there doesn’t seem to be much evidence supporting the ‘anti-fascist’ theory at all.

 

[Stirlingsays]

There is considerably more evidence that he was some sort of hyper online meme/troll type than anything else at this stage - I’ve provided a selection of screenshots and photos, as well as references from people who understand that strange online space - you are yet to engage with a single one of these examples or references, let alone refute them.

Time will tell.

If you are honest in intent you should apologise.

You said what you produced was 'just as reliable' or words to that effect.

I asked for the inputs that produced what you pasted onto the screen and you haven't produced them.
None of the images give me that information. You give me a question referring to 'symbols' but you don't give me the symbols.

Yet what I gave you can be directly reproduced.

What Grok states from what I asked it said, 'Tyler Robinson's political stance appears to be left-leaning and antifascist'.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

If you are honest in intent you should apologise.

You said what you produced was 'just as reliable' or words to that effect.

I asked for the inputs that produced what you pasted onto the screen and you haven't produced them.
None of the images give me that information. You give me a question referring to 'symbols' but you don't give me the symbols.

Yet what I gave you can be directly reproduced.

What Grok states from what I asked it said, 'Tyler Robinson's political stance appears to be left-leaning and antifascist'.

You’re very transparently lingering on this point, at the expense of engaging with any other, because it’s about the only one you can tackle at this stage.

It’s very, very obvious.

 

[eaglesdare]

The idea that he murdered / assassinated Charlie Kirk for not being right wing enough, but also considered Charlie Kirk a "fascist," is totally incoherent and absolute nonsense.

 

[Stirlingsays]

As we’ve shown, being critical of Kirk is something antifa and these Groypers would have in common, so it’s not evidence either way.

Is this not disingenuous? Groypers would be critical of Kirk, however the comparison of feeling between these two groups isn't comparable.

If anyone watches the college campus meetings that Kirk sets ups and compares where he gets the vast majority of criticism from....they will see that the vast majority is from progressives.

Where’s the evidence of ‘antifa discord servers’? Just saying it does not make it evidence.

Well, as Grok states....'Digital Activity: Discord messages showed premeditation but no explicit political posts; their tone aligns with online antifascist or left-leaning communities.'

His messaging is not anti-fascist - they are all very online references, as I have explained above.

No you made claims that have no proof.

Without proof then there is no reason to not take these messages at face value. They align with the tone of his online messages according to Grok.

So there doesn’t seem to be much evidence supporting the ‘anti-fascist’ theory at all.

I suggest that you are in denial.

 

[Stirlingsays]

You’re very transparently lingering on this point, at the expense of engaging with any other, because it’s about the only one you can tackle at this stage.

It’s very, very obvious.

I am lingering on that point.

Because it's quite central as to whether you pasted something that was honest or misinformation.

You stated it was 'just as reliable'.

I'll be honest, I found that annoying, because it appears not to be the case.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Is this not disingenuous? Groypers would be critical of Kirk, however the comparison of feeling between these two groups isn't comparable.

If anyone watches the college campus meetings that Kirk sets ups and compares where he gets the vast majority of criticism from....they will see that the vast majority is from progressives.




Well, as Grok states....'Digital Activity: Discord messages showed premeditation but no explicit political posts; their tone aligns with online antifascist or left-leaning communities.'



No you made claims that have no proof.

Without proof then there is no reason to not take these messages at face value. They align with the tone of his online messages according to Grok.



I suggest that you are in denial.

You’re accusing me of providing no proof, despite a collection of screenshots and reference points, whilst the pillar of proof supporting your own position is Grok vaguely talking about an alignment in tone, without a single screenshot, example or quote.

I suggest that you are in denial.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The idea that he murdered / assassinated Charlie Kirk for not being right wing enough, but also considered Charlie Kirk a "fascist," is totally incoherent and absolute nonsense.

It’s also a complete straw man 👍🏻